Nice guys programmer are committing career suicide

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norobotman

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I realized the past year you cannot be a nice guy and be in programming. Senior guys want to make any one below them look stupid compared to them and juniors want to take your job so they won't give you credit for helping them so your boss would think they managed so easy the same tasks you had to learn by yourself with no help.

All programmers I have met are so more self centered more than any person in other professions.
You can also not be friend with your fellow programmers as there is no benefit to it so you will be so much better off being a SOB. Rather finish your work well ahead of deadlines, testing it properly and if you have free time refactor with new techniques and in that way learn. I just realized f I just focus on my work and don't volunteer to help others without getting recognition for it I will be so much better of in my career.
 
You seem pretty jaded at this point.

I completely disagree :D
If anything, what the industry needs (especially in private sector stuff) are more devs that aren't evil. Also, if you end up being this jaded forever, you'll hate your career and possibly yourself by the end. Don't do it!
 
AntiThesis said:
Also, if you end up being this jaded forever, you'll hate your career and possibly yourself by the end. Don't do it!
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What I am saying is a person would become jaded dealing with no life programmers who skinder and twist facts about others they want to get rid at any opportunity they get. They fooled me couple of times with me giving me the benefit of the doubt each time. After so long I realized they just cannot change. They are in love with making themselves look better thinking they are superior in thinking and don't realize there actions makes them look like no life dicks.
So I am going to change to something that seems to be the worse but will be so much better for my career in the long term and will make me focus on tech rather than disingenuous morons.
 
You seem frustrated and I think it's because you were expecting things to go a certain way for you.(as in co-operative workers)
How are your projects going and what facts do they twist to point you out, if I may ask?
 
The reasons don't matter. I was just making some general observations.
 
everyone knows what everyone else is up to. everyone knows who is doing all the work, who is freeloading, who is competent and who isn't. we all know who the big mouth is. They may not always know the specifics, but it always eventually comes out. Just carry on working to the best of your ability, help as many people as you can, (so long as it doesn't put you behind in your work) and your bosses will recognise you as an asset.
 
WOW... which teenage drama are you working in... I found that generally people in IT are a lot better than any other profession...
 
Depends where you work. Some places are what you describe. The place I work at everyone is 35 and older (I'm the youngest guy). Everyone has families and family life, plenty of pregnant women, etc.

It is anything but competitive or cut-throat. In fact my direct superior left his previous job running a very successful company and took a massive pay cut so he can spend more time with his family. Last thing he is looking for IMHO is to compete (doesn't mean he will let me walk all over him, but he is a stand up guy with morals if I can put it like that).

The team leader and chief designers are all incredibly nice people. In fact if you are the kind of ass that gets angry, you'd lose your job. One day at work we spent 3 hours prank calling people in the office area and the boss thought it was hilarious (until management called and asked why ppl are complaining about prank calls). It's a fairly large corporation tho, so everyone is careful about stepping on toes.
 
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ave said:
Just carry on working to the best of your ability, help as many people as you can, (so long as it doesn't put you behind in your work) and your bosses will recognise you as an asset.
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I know you said this to try to spin some positivity out of this but at the same time it's the biggest load of bull**** I've ever read. The fact is the person who can kiss the best ass prospers. End of story. Been proven to me in my situation time and time again and if you wake the **** up and open your eyes and look at your surroundings you will notice what I say is true.

Life shouldn't be this much of a ****ing struggle when *******s can get ahead with little-to-no ****ing skill while you're the good little work-horse willing to pull the cart while others aren't in the hopes you might get noticed and recognized as an asset. If you can suck cock without tearing up you're a winner for life. No amount of positivity will ever make that statement false. Kiss ass/suck cock is the only way you'll ever get recognized as an asset. Something I refuse to do and the "fruits" of my labor? The pride I took in my work and the ability/strength/problem solving skills/new tech I brought to the table all got ignored JUST because I wasn't in love with the boss and took care of his ballsack (I hear you have to work the ballsack too)

You can't be a "nice" guy programmer because there are always backstabbing self-centered dick sucking *******s out there to make you look worthless while they go ahead and pluck the fruits of YOUR labor years from now. The soul-sucking industry you decided to enter into doesn't allow you to have much of a life if you ever cared about your profession more than "just to make money" and the amount of people who try to exploit your good nature is ****ing staggering.

This is why you get "jaded" programmers. **** I.T and **** the people who exploit you like a ****ing slave constantly with the promise of security and/or a few extra bucks.
 
It's one of life's lessons, I've worked at a place where I hated it but I had to stay to get some experience.
 
There is a trick to it. You don't say yes to the first job offer you get. Spend 6 months or even a year going to interviews and getting offers until the one you know its right for you arrives.

Also going to interviews also means speaking to the existing staff, most interviewers are quite happy to give you a tour and let you speak to some of the staff. Ask the staff questions like when the last salary review took places, what sort of percentages were given, how many people have left in the last year, how long the working hours are, if they could change one thing what would it be. The staff are unlikely to right out say the job sucks, but are also unlikely to lie to you. Take note of the questions they try avoid answering.

Finally, figure out what you really want and be realistic.

And if all else fails, perhaps a career change is needed or serious introspection.
 
Sheeeeit. Some serious negative experiences here. :(

Look, I'll be honest. I left a job because one of the programmers was hacking our systems to make himself look good, but at the same company I made life-long friendships (with other developers). I've been careful since, so consider it a lesson learned, but I didn't let it affect the way I view others. All the other positions I have held in IT have been with awesome teams, both in terms of productivity and on a personal level. I am currently surrounded by people of all ages and ethnic background (and gender), and we all get on like a house on fire. We discuss the latest hardware, patterns, languages, etc. on a daily basis, so it's not just personal either.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you are not happy in your current position, get out. If you can feel your soul dying, GET OUT! You'll not regret the decision in the long term.
 
Raithlin said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you are not happy in your current position, get out. If you can feel your soul dying, GET OUT! You'll not regret the decision in the long term.
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I worked at the kind of place that AR and the OP describe. For 13 years, and allowed this to happen. Then, one day, let's just say we parted ways - the Labour Court will decide the semantics. For the first month, food was a luxury. Then, after selling my house at a loss to chase the wolves from the door, starting my own scene and answering to The Gregness, things slowly started to happen. A few months down the line, I was smoking Cubans again - something I could not afford for the last two years of my 13 year hell. I choose my clients carefully now, although back in the beginning anything went. I could be richer, sure, but then I would not be sitting at O'Hagans in pair of shorts and a T-shirt right now.

I can relate to the musing of the OP so well but I must say the quoted advice is priceless. Once you get out (however which way, to another company or to working for yourself) happiness and confidence in the industry return. There are indeed many many a-holes, jerks and glory-whores. But, I have found, when the skill and humanity around them leave, their little worlds fall apart and they get exposed very quickly for the useless turds they are.

I will however caution those who feel like the doormat: it may be that the person using you like a doormat is displaying a rare skill in the IT world: leadership. Don't assume because you are the best at the IT job and your immediate boss is mediocre at best that you deserve the appointment to management. If s/he is able to get the IT serfs to deliver on time, then that leadership and skill is far more appreciated than the ability to actually do. Many IT people work on their own timelines and deliver when they feel like it. IT whip-crackers are in demand.
 
The soul-dying thing goes in cycles. You get fed some positivity and a glimmer of hope every now and again only to let disappointment eat away at your soul again. It's sad, but true.

LOL@Acid being his usual self :p
 
Raithlin said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you are not happy in your current position, get out. If you can feel your soul dying, GET OUT! You'll not regret the decision in the long term.
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I have to agree. Once you get that overall negative feeling towards your job it is way past over. I got out, was a bit cash-strapped for the first month or so but that quickly changed. Best decision of my life, so far ;)

As for the title of this thread - I have to disagree. I work at a large development company and I don't think I have ever met one of these so-called "evil" programmers. What I have noticed though is that the technical leads are generally useless at training people (maybe because their interest lies in tech and not people) and the juniors LUUURRRVVEEE their Facebook.
 
GreGorGy said:
Twitter: imaginary friend for adults.
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:D Nah - I use it to build my company rep, and to keep updated as an alternative to RSS... it's all about how you manage it. (No, I don't tweet about personal stuff, like having supper...)
 
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