Nkandla Freeway Corruption Potentially Exposed...

[JungleBoy]

So JungleBoy, if you owned a company and appointed a senior manager who you know came from a poor family, and you're paying him R200k per year and he builds a R25 million rand home you would not be suspicious?

I would have him investigated for sure.
I'm of the opinion that the public protector is currently investigating the R200 m spent by Public Works on Zuma's Nkandla property. Surely then the findings of that investigation will shed some light on how much money was spent and whether that was justified or not.

 

[snail]

NPA, public protector, parliament, hawks.... They all appear to be **** scared of Zuma. The only people who have the balls against Zuma are the DA, and maybe also Carte Blanche as they publish anything legit no matter who it is.

 

[DJ...]

I would have him investigated for sure.
I'm of the opinion that the public protector is currently investigating the R200 m spent by Public Works on Zuma's Nkandla property. Surely then the findings of that investigation will shed some light on how much money was spent and whether that was justified or not.

One doesn't need the public protector to realise that when they refer to the National Key Points Act as a justification for the spend, they're being disingenuous, considering the KPA only allows for certain upgrades that are in the region of a few thousand percent less than what they have actually spent. Regardless - the money has been spent now. There is no recovering it.

They do this because ANC supporters like you blindly justify it at every opportunity when in fact you should be doing all you can to hold them to account. It's no secret that the ANC is in a bit of turmoil because of this excuse for a leader. Now I can understand your argument if you're a JZ supporter but I've often got the impression that you're simply an ANC supporter, not necessarily a blind follower and defender of a certain individual just because they happen to be an ANC member...

 

[blunomore]

Just speaking in general, this explains a lot about the motives for this incredible spending frenzy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schabir_Shaik_trial

When apartheid ended, many former exiled African National Congress (ANC) leaders returned home to financially ruined lives, such as Jacob Zuma, one of the most important Zulu ANC members.[1] Appointed MEC for Economic Affairs and Tourism in KwaZulu-Natal in May 1994[2] by the new ANC government, he thought that he needed much more than his salary from that position to make up for the time he spent fighting.

 

[rorz0r]

Maybe, maybe not... Things seem to have a habit of being "investigated" in this country and then that's the last we ever hear of it...

So another question (possibly DJ mentioned it already) is if 95% of this road is to benefit the people living in mud huts etc and only 5% of it diverts to Nkandla then why all the "cover up" with the whole 1.5bn? Why not have 1.4bn going through legitimate channels and then his family/bond/friends/third force/whoever only has to pay for the little bit going to his doorstep?

 

[CR34M3]

Regarding the highway (irrespective of Nkandla's existence) and seeing as this is pretty much Public Works' money (assuming they provided the R1.5b):
* How does the cost of the highway compare to other highways of this nature? If I understand correctly it isn't really an upgrade as the current roads are not tarred. If any, just how big an overspend are we looking at for a project of this size.
* Legally speaking, how difficult would it be for an opposition group to prove in court that a certain area is a higher priority than another? I ask this as it makes me wonder which of the legal battles that Public Works seems to be heading toward would be easier -- proving priority or justify weird money movement matters?

 

[DJ...]

JungleBoy - you first mentioned that my post was a good one. But you've since attempted to criticise it at every opportunity. I'm a little confused about your stance on this all. Are you agreeing that there appears to be corruption taking place with the road deal, or are you saying that all appears to be above board and we're all just being stupid for thinking that these inconsistencies, coincidences, and flaws are anything of merit...?

 

[Albereth]

Regarding the highway (irrespective of Nkandla's existence) and seeing as this is pretty much Public Works' money (assuming they provided the R1.5b):
* How does the cost of the highway compare to other highways of this nature? If I understand correctly it isn't really an upgrade as the current roads are not tarred. If any, just how big an overspend are we looking at for a project of this size.
* Legally speaking, how difficult would it be for an opposition group to prove in court that a certain area is a higher priority than another? I ask this as it makes me wonder which of the legal battles that Public Works seems to be heading toward would be easier -- proving priority or justify weird money movement matters?

Actually it is our money. Public Works spend it on our behalf.

 

[Fudzy]

Now it looks like the presidency has admitted (again?) to Zuma having a bond for his place.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zuma-has-a-bond-on-nkandla-presidency-1.1427063

I wonder for how much? Probably a lot less than the security features the state is apparently paying for.

Also:

Maharaj said journalists should “respect” the investigations underway into the spending of public funds at Nkandla.

“We urge the media to respect the agencies that are investigating the various aspects of the security enhancements at the residence as speculations and rumour-mongering will not assist the process.”

The Auditor-General, Terence Nombembe, has been asked to audit the state’s spending on Nkandla along with other classified prestige projects, while the Public Protector is also investigating. Public Works Minister Thulas Nxesi, whose department was responsible for carrying out work at Nkandla, recently announced a special task team was also looking at the matter.

Of course no time is giving as to when this report will be ready.

 

[DJ...]

Regarding the highway (irrespective of Nkandla's existence) and seeing as this is pretty much Public Works' money (assuming they provided the R1.5b):

Could be Human Settlements. Could be Public Works. Could be another department entirely. What we know is that it isn't a philanthropic American investor, as implied by the government...

* How does the cost of the highway compare to other highways of this nature? If I understand correctly it isn't really an upgrade as the current roads are not tarred. If any, just how big an overspend are we looking at for a project of this size.

Well let's compare it with e-tolling where I've also done some research into the numbers.

For the GFIP project, we are paying R135m per kilometre, excluding interest payments.

For this project the cost is only R8,8m per kilometre.

Makes a person wonder why we paid R135m/km for the GFIP. Just another bit of government misappropriation of funds...

 

[JungleBoy]

One doesn't need the public protector to realise that when they refer to the National Key Points Act as a justification for the spend, they're being disingenuous, considering the KPA only allows for certain upgrades that are in the region of a few thousand percent less than what they have actually spent. Regardless - the money has been spent now. There is no recovering it.

They do this because ANC supporters like you blindly justify it at every opportunity when in fact you should be doing all you can to hold them to account. It's no secret that the ANC is in a bit of turmoil because of this excuse for a leader. Now I can understand your argument if you're a JZ supporter but I've often got the impression that you're simply an ANC supporter, not necessarily a blind follower and defender of a certain individual just because they happen to be an ANC member...

Actually I'm just as appalled by the amount of money spent on Zuma's home under the guise of security. I wish the investigation could be speeded up so we can know sooner rather than later who benefited from the inflated prices. They all should go to jail for stealing from the public.

However, back to the issue at hand, I just find it hard to believe that the concerned departments one of which is Public Works would go for such an elaborate scheme to try and hide their funding building a public road when they clearly did not even bother to hide it when they upgraded Jacob Zuma's personal home. That is the part that does not make sense.

 

[DJ...]

Now it looks like the presidency has admitted (again?) to Zuma having a bond for his place.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zuma-has-a-bond-on-nkandla-presidency-1.1427063

I wonder for how much? Probably a lot less than the security features the state is apparently paying for.

If a bond existed, it would be easily found through a deeds search. Considering the area is zoned to ERFs, and the presidency confirmed the ERF stand, it would show up as being bonded, which is quite clearly what Mac-attack is stating. Moreover, if Zuma has a bond, it would be searchable on his name as well, especially if it had been registered such a long time ago.

Bottom line is there appears to be no bond whatsoever. There might be in a few days' time when he arranges one behind the scenes, and they'll spin a new story about the deeds office cocking up. One doesn't cock up the president's deed though. And the property belongs to Ingonyama Trust. How can Zuma bond property and land that does not belong to him?

I can't come along and bond your property, even if you give me permission, to the best of my knowledge, as the bank then has no recourse to the asset upon default...

 

[Sinbad]

Actually I'm just as appalled by the amount of money spent on Zuma's home under the guise of security. I wish the investigation could be speeded up so we can know sooner rather than later who benefited from the inflated prices. They all should go to jail for stealing from the public.

However, back to the issue at hand, I just find it hard to believe that the concerned departments one of which is Public Works would go for such an elaborate scheme to try and hide their funding building a public road when they clearly did not even bother to hide it when they upgraded Jacob Zuma's personal home. That is the part that does not make sense.

So why DID they? The trail appears obvious - cash funnelled through shelf company and a US attorney?
And they are doing their level best to hide/obfuscate the inkandla spend too.

 

[BBSA]

Actually I'm just as appalled by the amount of money spent on Zuma's home under the guise of security. I wish the investigation could be speeded up so we can know sooner rather than later who benefited from the inflated prices. They all should go to jail for stealing from the public.

However, back to the issue at hand, I just find it hard to believe that the concerned departments one of which is Public Works would go for such an elaborate scheme to try and hide their funding building a public road when they clearly did not even bother to hide it when they upgraded Jacob Zuma's personal home. That is the part that does not make sense.

They did try to hide it, why do you think Zuma's compound is suddenly a national key point?

 

[rorz0r]

JungleBoy and other ANC supporters seem to think that all the whities don't want the goverment doing anything to help the underpriviledged or something, so it doesn't matter if you stick 80% of the money in your pocket but as long as you build a road to them then it's all good (because it's more than the apartheid govt did for them of course). Never mind that you could have built a road to them, some houses for them with working toilets and given them a full education for the same money. Who wants an education anyway, ANC will provide everything for us as long as we keep voting for them for eternity...

 

[JungleBoy]

Could be Human Settlements. Could be Public Works. Could be another department entirely. What we know is that it isn't a philanthropic American investor, as implied by the government...




Well let's compare it with e-tolling where I've also done some research into the numbers.

For the GFIP project, we are paying R135m per kilometre, excluding interest payments.

For this project the cost is only R8,8m per kilometre.

Makes a person wonder why we paid R135m/km for the GFIP. Just another bit of government misappropriation of funds...

Well for once the GFIP involved 6 - 12 lanes of pavement. This road is likely to be one lane in each direction like most rural roads are.

 

[DJ...]

Actually I'm just as appalled by the amount of money spent on Zuma's home under the guise of security. I wish the investigation could be speeded up so we can know sooner rather than later who benefited from the inflated prices. They all should go to jail for stealing from the public.

However, back to the issue at hand, I just find it hard to believe that the concerned departments one of which is Public Works would go for such an elaborate scheme to try and hide their funding building a public road when they clearly did not even bother to hide it when they upgraded Jacob Zuma's personal home. That is the part that does not make sense.

Because the road is worth more than 5 times that of Nkandla. They figured they could get away with Nkandla - R250m is a far cry from R1.5bn. Another issue might be pure and simple corruption - someone wanted to benefit from the deal. There doesn't have to be a major conspiracy at play here - it might just be bog-standard corruption that we see every day in this country. Nobody can tell you the motives for the actions yet. But what's undeniable is that the official version of the road funding is not true. Can we at least agree on that?

 

[JungleBoy]

They did try to hide it, why do you think Zuma's compound is suddenly a national key point?

But that is not public works that determines that. It is the minister of safety and security's prerogative.

 

[DJ...]

Well for once the GFIP involved 6 - 12 lanes of pavement. This road is likely to be one lane in each direction like most rural roads are.

IIRC the freeway planned is a highway, so the number of lanes will depend on the class it is classified as. Secondly, even if there are 5 lanes (not 6 each way iirc), what's 9 X 5?

Yeah, still 1/3 of what we paid for the GFIP project. Seem legit to you?

 

[Sinbad]

But that is not public works that determines that. It is the minister of safety and security's perogative.

So? We have a minister of co-operative governance who probably told Safety and Security to cover up Public Works's ****storm. Or Showerhead himself instructed them to.