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No exceptions, US tells Israel
- Thread starter krycor
- Start date
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Fudzy
Guest
Well Obamasiah did say America would never break relations with Israel but then again Obamasiah says a lot of things
Where did it say they were breaking relations? It looks like they are making headway to a peaceful resolution as much as you warmongers would like to see otherwise.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
I think this is a good thing. I think Israel should abandon building settlements in the disputed or former Palestinian areas... not least for the settler's own safety. They have flipped flopped on it so many times, you would have to be crazy to be a settler who would go back into one of those areas. We know that it is a just a matter of time, and that when the Palestinians finally renounce violence once and for all, that land will be given back to them.
Krycor said it.
Bit rich coming from the guy who wants to destroy the ME's sole democracy
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=122629&highlight=Jerusalem
If Israel feels its security is threatened, nothing Obama (or America) can do will change their minds. Obama mustn’t paint himself into a corner to be embarrassed by Israeli intransigence. A lasting peace will never happen. Israel (IMO) would be extremely unwise to think it can (Israel’s enemies don’t even bluff themselves it’s possible). The best that can be hoped for is indefinitely delayed hostilities. That’s what should be aimed for by both sides. It’s realistic. It may be possible to continue delaying far into the future. I believe there are several unresolved conflicts around the world where this strategy is practised.
Krycor said it.
Bit rich coming from the guy who wants to destroy the ME's sole democracy
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=122629&highlight=Jerusalem
I thought Israel is a Jewish state, not a democracy?
There is a growing irritation with Israel's settlement policy in Europe and America. Israel has already lost a lot of sympathy in Europe due its settlement policy.
The EU will probably support Israel's view that the Palestinians dont get to return unconditionally to Israel.
Voting patterns in America are changing as well. The Israel lobby's influence is getting smaller, not larger.
Israel currently has the opportunity to get the bulk of the Arab League to recognise its right to exist as well as not being forced to accept Palestinians back into Isreal. But they need to give up the disputed areas.
The longer this drags on, the less Israel will get from any deal. At some point the west is going get sick and tired of the whole thing. That needs to be avoided.
The EU will probably support Israel's view that the Palestinians dont get to return unconditionally to Israel.
Voting patterns in America are changing as well. The Israel lobby's influence is getting smaller, not larger.
Israel currently has the opportunity to get the bulk of the Arab League to recognise its right to exist as well as not being forced to accept Palestinians back into Isreal. But they need to give up the disputed areas.
The longer this drags on, the less Israel will get from any deal. At some point the west is going get sick and tired of the whole thing. That needs to be avoided.
Zana
Well-Known Member
They doing it wrong again...
( Obama is getting tips from higher levels unfortunately as it is showing in the results)
the best solution I see is:
First of all is to unite the Palastinians and the Israelis, somehow focus them on developing the future, and there children other than thinking back into the past where they are focused on there scars and hurt which was caused by the conflict of both extremes, which has been looped over for years. USA isnt doing a god job by putting restrictions on them, for heaven's sake these are people not cattle. The process should be uniting the people sort out the differences and create a new state like here a new south africa(despite the tempory downfall of ANC of recent), actualy I recently discovered through Rael's text that the original name of Africa is Kama.
In otherwords, forget the past, throw it in the bin, take out the future and create a new future together. In otherwords people have been writing on the same page, and the page has become unreadable, turn a page , a new chapter a new begining.
There isnt much difference with the Israelies and Palastines since they are genetically related proof is in the ancient texts of Bible, Torah and Koran and which is also being analysed in the laboratory as a scientific back up to the ancient texts, the only differences are belief and culture, and if one could get them to respect and Love , regardless of there beliefs and culture, and live in harmony, and there choice of beliefe and culture, peace would finaly reach the middle east.
losta Love and huggles
♥♥♥♥
You see you looking at it wrong.. the Israeli's have always and continue to claim ownership of the occupied west bank. In fact if the current president went 180 and said he will stop & pull out of the west bank, back to the legal borders(which they are in violation of) then he would NOT have won the elections. heck he'd have been a blimp on the results.
As much as obama wants to run his mouth off and appear fair to the arabs, he won't do a thing to israel, that's guaranteed. The ONLY reason he is doing so now is due to the coming palestinian elections where it would look more favourable for abbas's party if they achieved something because face the facts, the evictions and continual re-development of west bank and jerusalem has gotten a lot worse in the last 10 yrs and with the gaza war still in memory, are the people really still going to be convinced he can pull off a fair peace deal?
Also remember this peace deal is a pipe dream to palestinians in the west bank as nothing as really improved since aside from israel not coming in with an army as frequently.. but now instead they have evictions happening all over and hill tops in surrounding area's suddenly get put under development much like car guards suddenly appearing over night.
As much as obama wants to run his mouth off and appear fair to the arabs, he won't do a thing to israel, that's guaranteed. The ONLY reason he is doing so now is due to the coming palestinian elections where it would look more favourable for abbas's party if they achieved something because face the facts, the evictions and continual re-development of west bank and jerusalem has gotten a lot worse in the last 10 yrs and with the gaza war still in memory, are the people really still going to be convinced he can pull off a fair peace deal?
Also remember this peace deal is a pipe dream to palestinians in the west bank as nothing as really improved since aside from israel not coming in with an army as frequently.. but now instead they have evictions happening all over and hill tops in surrounding area's suddenly get put under development much like car guards suddenly appearing over night.
Zana
Well-Known Member
Awww ((huggles))♥
Looking at it wrong hmm , ? Now what is the problem in the first place which is causing the uprising ? Borders... etc.. its like two children fighting over there spots on a piece of ground, or sections in a bedroom, or levels in a computer game. First of all, fair enouph giving the West bank to Palastines.. But there is still separation. Young israelies ones who have been braught up there will be upset since its there homes, which would cause cause hurt and the loop to continue in the future fighting over what land is whos etc etc etc. A good example of this is the Gaza strip, Look whats happned ? The Palastines got the worst end of it even if they got the land eventualy, but routs of supplies were halted and inhumane. Was this the revenge the Israelis had on the Palastinians? "I will show you now, here is the land but you must pay" realy realy this must stop. the only way to deal with the problem is for them to stop, realize there siomilarities. They all realated and can live and share the land together and be an example to the rest of the planet. When you think about it, isnt the WHOLE planet yours ? Not just South Africa, but the whole world is yours to share with others... but know governments come along, create borders, flags restrictions etc etc, thus the very reason why I am batteling to just go to the UK and Europe. Its easy to get there, jump on a plane etc... but Its the human factor, the complexities of whos land is who and the documents of permission I need. Thats why a start of a new future needs to be made there, where guns be put down, differences and predudices be put down, hurt to be put asside and embrace each other in love, realize the presciousness of life and each other exising is important and working together to a better future and set an example to the rest of the world That they have overcome the borders, that they have overcome there differences and that They are brothers and sisters in humanity and they share the land. The planet has been here long before the existence of human beings, now actualy nature has more right to claim land than the human beings themselves if you think about it carefully, since it was first. lol.♥
The way to understand is to look at the Palastines and look at the Isrealies, for they both have suffered, due to there extremists who do not realize the importance of each other LIVING TOGETHER, and they are the same people. Obama does not understand this, his consciousness still revolves around borders etc, where people are only numbers, cattle or statistical things, instead of conscious living beings that have emotion, feeling and uniqueness. he will only understand if he experienced life as a Palastinian and as an Israeli at the same time. One can understand this by simulating themselves in there imagination, where you could sit and think and imagine your an Israeli for a moment, imagine you living there , then Imagine you a palastinian.. its like putting yourself in there shoes in order to understand them. Communicating with them , helps with the simulation in order to understand and reason with them better.
pipe dream? few years ago many African peoples here would think it was a pipe dream to have the shackels of apartheid removed. I spoke to a guide at robben island, I said to him..
"Did you ever think that one day you be here telling stories and taking tourists around the Island at the time you were in prison ?"
he said no, and if he thaught of it, it would have only been a dream.
Love and huggles
♥
This is Pollyannarish and will never happen. There is no love lost between the opposing sides and Israel has much experience of the perfidy of it’s enemies. Promises and undertakings are regularly broken (Israeli’s are infidels after all. Not members of the true faith so they don’t count. Allah akbar!). Nope. Warm and fuzzy solutions are not the key.
In the perfect world there would be a one state solution Zana (And i think this is the best solution).. but this is not the perfect world and the US is about as effective as they were here, except they've chosen a side which now is hell bent on getting what it wants (and who in the real world wouldn't be if you have the US backing whatever u wanted for a few yrs?).
I tell you what, the day the US decides to stay out of things in Israel or smack them around a bit, that is the day things will change! Until then it is a pipe dream.
SA is a bad example to use, while other countries may have supported the gov indirectly and behind close doors, for the most part the world was against it and as such it fell part. Israel's resistance as a divided state is well supported which is why they can defy the demands. There is no sanctions on them and last i checked the Israeli soccer team will be in the WC next year too. So no, don't even try saying it will sort itself out or its not as bleak as it was here.. because at least here people(here and elsewhere) had a conciousness of doing wrong.
I tell you what, the day the US decides to stay out of things in Israel or smack them around a bit, that is the day things will change! Until then it is a pipe dream.
SA is a bad example to use, while other countries may have supported the gov indirectly and behind close doors, for the most part the world was against it and as such it fell part. Israel's resistance as a divided state is well supported which is why they can defy the demands. There is no sanctions on them and last i checked the Israeli soccer team will be in the WC next year too. So no, don't even try saying it will sort itself out or its not as bleak as it was here.. because at least here people(here and elsewhere) had a conciousness of doing wrong.
You better hope this doesn’t happen. Besides, it won’t be easy. The American electorate has an aversion to American corpses piling up. There will be a mind-boggling amount of American corpses. There are others who wouldn’t mind seeing America get a klap. Russia and China (for eg.) spring to mind. America may ultimately emerge victorious but at a tremendous cost. No more super-power status (obviously) and they will be so weakened that they will be easy prey for any international piranhas. Alienating the only outpost of democracy in the ME? Not remotely in America’s interests.
Hmmmmm they're democratic to an extent. Think apartheid in S.A.... the whites lived in a democracy the blacks didn't. In my opinion there are numerous parallels between Old S.A. and Israel.
I doubt the US will ever go in to overthrow them there, what i meant was more in line with giving them an ultimatum with a withdrawl of support & funding hanging in the balance.(its something they wouldn't want to lose and would give in).
China is already winning, at the end of this recession there will be more factories and production there than ever before. At the end of the day the life for an avg to below avg american citizen is gonna suck a whole lot more due to globalisation. Basically the americans need a world war to fix things wherein they are not the active participant until later in the war again.
I disagree. Sure, they wouldn't want to lose American support but if they believe their security is threatened, they will take whatever actions they see fit (bugger America). They have to live in the ME – America doesn’t. America can afford an “Oops! We were wrong.” They are a long way from the ME. Israel can’t afford “oopses”, their survival as a nation is at stake.
Zana
Well-Known Member
♥
Thanks, yes it is and seems to be the most fair, balanced and loving, but one has to make the world perfect some day at least ♥ Since the world cannot go on with wars, hatred, pain etc etc any longer, one can see this very clearly in the tears of nature, and the aching hearts of people.
Israelstine/Palisrael has the chance to make a difference and set an example to the rest of the planet and be a hope to themselves, not a looping burden to themselves and future generations. I think the US involvement should be neutral and not picking a side and not disliking a side, but show love and guidance (which they never thought of). I think people should work on the independence as individuals rather than looking for other countries to ally sides with, or work together as a whole planet in unity. as an Earth.
Thats they whole purpose of imagination. But people dont look at ideas coming from affar that are fair and well balanced and why?
Perhaps, but it seems to be one of the best according to dug up history of this planet, and yes there are a lot of problems within the government itself, but to clarify it all , one bumps there head. The good out of this was Democracy was most successful at first and all people were part of the rainbow nation. But from 2004 things did start to slide backwards, as the past was dug up, opening sores etc instead of focusing on the future. Perhaps this country will learn from these recent elections that are to vote intelligently. But then again when looking at the consciousness of the politicians themselves, who do you trust? Why can you rely on? Who will operate the country in a way it should, with no fraud, abolishing ethnic classification of south africans completely, focusing on the future, focusing on happiness and love for all citizens?
A divided state is a divided people, with division, there are barriers and there is discrimination between both sides. But one can forgive and forget and make right and focus for the future. ♥
That’s an unusual word, but in time the way things appear across the planet it has to happen or humanity will self terminate. The Love would have to be created by the people and this is done by forgiving, and putting behind and burying it into the past and realizing that Life is precious gift that everyone around has received, being alive is actually a gift, and Loving is a way of sharing it. Accepting each other and respecting there uniqueness, orientations, beliefs, cultures with the freedom to choose. Promises and documents, and conditions will never provide true peace.
the problem with treating others that don’t fit into one's group of likeness is refering the opposites as "infidels". Evereyone is even unique within there group of ideas themselves and there viewpoints and philosophies might slightly differ, example of this was the thread of Ten Commandments, God and Jesus, its amazing of the people who belong to the same group even have there own uniqueness within the group themselves.
For me example I use myself to be more clear and fair: I am Raelian, then there are many who part of the group who see things differently thus caused the human factor which happens which results in rejection within the group itself. That is why its important to Love and respect everyone as individuals, forgive them , respect them for there thoughts and decisions and move on and focus on your own consciousness, even if they don’t understand and you don’t understand them, because we all in the end understand
♥. But surely no one has the right to choose to take the life of anther, since you never brought them into the world yourself. the best way to solve a level of hate is to drop some love and move on turn the other way, not continue holding onto hate and hurt and utilizing it for revenge, but instead convert the hurt into forgiveness and love.
Lotsa love and huggles
♥♥♥
Thanks, yes it is and seems to be the most fair, balanced and loving, but one has to make the world perfect some day at least ♥ Since the world cannot go on with wars, hatred, pain etc etc any longer, one can see this very clearly in the tears of nature, and the aching hearts of people.
Israelstine/Palisrael has the chance to make a difference and set an example to the rest of the planet and be a hope to themselves, not a looping burden to themselves and future generations. I think the US involvement should be neutral and not picking a side and not disliking a side, but show love and guidance (which they never thought of). I think people should work on the independence as individuals rather than looking for other countries to ally sides with, or work together as a whole planet in unity. as an Earth.
Pipe dreams pipe dreams, yes dreams are made to be implemented.
Thats they whole purpose of imagination. But people dont look at ideas coming from affar that are fair and well balanced and why?
Perhaps, but it seems to be one of the best according to dug up history of this planet, and yes there are a lot of problems within the government itself, but to clarify it all , one bumps there head. The good out of this was Democracy was most successful at first and all people were part of the rainbow nation. But from 2004 things did start to slide backwards, as the past was dug up, opening sores etc instead of focusing on the future. Perhaps this country will learn from these recent elections that are to vote intelligently. But then again when looking at the consciousness of the politicians themselves, who do you trust? Why can you rely on? Who will operate the country in a way it should, with no fraud, abolishing ethnic classification of south africans completely, focusing on the future, focusing on happiness and love for all citizens?
A divided state is a divided people, with division, there are barriers and there is discrimination between both sides. But one can forgive and forget and make right and focus for the future. ♥
That’s an unusual word, but in time the way things appear across the planet it has to happen or humanity will self terminate. The Love would have to be created by the people and this is done by forgiving, and putting behind and burying it into the past and realizing that Life is precious gift that everyone around has received, being alive is actually a gift, and Loving is a way of sharing it. Accepting each other and respecting there uniqueness, orientations, beliefs, cultures with the freedom to choose. Promises and documents, and conditions will never provide true peace.
the problem with treating others that don’t fit into one's group of likeness is refering the opposites as "infidels". Evereyone is even unique within there group of ideas themselves and there viewpoints and philosophies might slightly differ, example of this was the thread of Ten Commandments, God and Jesus, its amazing of the people who belong to the same group even have there own uniqueness within the group themselves.
For me example I use myself to be more clear and fair: I am Raelian, then there are many who part of the group who see things differently thus caused the human factor which happens which results in rejection within the group itself. That is why its important to Love and respect everyone as individuals, forgive them , respect them for there thoughts and decisions and move on and focus on your own consciousness, even if they don’t understand and you don’t understand them, because we all in the end understand
♥. But surely no one has the right to choose to take the life of anther, since you never brought them into the world yourself. the best way to solve a level of hate is to drop some love and move on turn the other way, not continue holding onto hate and hurt and utilizing it for revenge, but instead convert the hurt into forgiveness and love.Lotsa love and huggles
♥♥♥
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♥
That’s an unusual word, but in time the way things appear across the planet it has to happen or humanity will self terminate. The Love would have to be created by the people and this is done by forgiving, and putting behind and burying it into the past and realizing that Life is precious gift that everyone around has received, being alive is actually a gift, and Loving is a way of sharing it. Accepting each other and respecting there uniqueness, orientations, beliefs, cultures with the freedom to choose. Promises and documents, and conditions will never provide true peace.
the problem with treating others that don’t fit into one's group of likeness is refering the opposites as "infidels". Evereyone is even unique within there group of ideas themselves and there viewpoints and philosophies might slightly differ, example of this was the thread of Ten Commandments, God and Jesus, its amazing of the people who belong to the same group even have there own uniqueness within the group themselves.
For me example I use myself to be more clear and fair: I am Raelian, then there are many who part of the group who see things differently thus caused the human factor which happens which results in rejection within the group itself. That is why its important to Love and respect everyone as individuals, forgive them , respect them for there thoughts and decisions and move on and focus on your own consciousness, even if they don’t understand and you don’t understand them, because we all in the end understand
Lotsa love and huggles
♥♥♥
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but love does NOT conquer all. A “turn the other cheek” philosophy will get your head ripped-off in double quick time. It is seen as weakness not ‘lets all link arms and march into the future singing kumbaya’ and is taken advantage of. The best philosophy is to ‘walk softly and carry a big stick. Don’t initiate trouble but make it clear that aggressors will place themselves into a world of grief and tears.
Exactly. The Jews know exactly what the dire consequences of compromising their security for others are.
*applauds*
Could not have been said better