Offer to purchase question

Banks factor their cost that they pay towards MO into your rate. I am trying to get you a lower rate by going direct.

But saying that, its not always the case. Alot of factors to consider. If your banking record is A+ (its a good start). Then do you have current debt? (as in affordability comes into play)

The crap in your case going with a MO, one bank might surprise you, and then you are forced to say “ok”.

Factor an interest rate of 4% on what we have now. (Can you still afford it)?

Lastly: my motto in buying property, if you doubt 1%... walk away!
Well I'm sure my experience with BetterBond should be interesting to people on here. I'll share that when it comes time. For now I refused to sign the OTP with my agent and asked for time to review it thoughtfully, and also requested performing a satisfactory home inspection BEFORE I sign the OTP (which just felt cleaner than having a legally-binding OTP and then having to fight with the seller over what I deem to be a serious problem). So yeah, I think I'm doing some big things right, for my very first homeloan (and thanks to everyone on here for their advice - I've been scouring this thread).
 
Well I'm sure my experience with BetterBond should be interesting to people on here. I'll share that when it comes time. For now I refused to sign the OTP with my agent and asked for time to review it thoughtfully, and also requested performing a satisfactory home inspection BEFORE I sign the OTP (which just felt cleaner than having a legally-binding OTP and then having to fight with the seller over what I deem to be a serious problem). So yeah, I think I'm doing some big things right, for my very first homeloan (and thanks to everyone on here for their advice - I've been scouring this thread).

Keep us posted. And if I can help with a bond. Give me a shout.

Congrats on buying your first property soon
 
Applying for a homeloan on my behalf? That's hectic. Just checked my OTP doc and that's not in there at least. My concern, Ron, is that by stating "reasonable" it's too broad to not be of sufficient protection to me. I know that every single percentage point counts here, and I'm not aiming to have even a 5% range. That's where I'd rather 'show my hand' and the banks can still compete on rates to get my loan (which is the whole point of going through BetterBond), and at least have something definitive to show to the sellers in the event I don't get exactly what I want or better. This is all just theory for me ... I was hoping someone here would have practical advice :)
I have bought and sold many properties, so I am sorry if my advice isn't practical enough. I give it freely: use or lose. :D

I agree with @zerocool2009 that approaching a bank directly is far better, in my own experience anyway.

For now I refused to sign the OTP with my agent and asked for time to review it thoughtfully, and also requested performing a satisfactory home inspection BEFORE I sign the OTP
You are never going to get a home if that is the case, people will simply sell their homes to someone else. You have to sign the OTP, it's a legal document. You can make it "Subject to a satisfactory home inspection report from an independent home assessor " or something along those lines, but no sane seller is going to allow a stranger with a clipboard into their home, climbing into the roof and poking at things, without a signed OTP.
 
Foxhound, reality is something scary! You can pray for a better rate .... but if rates go up, its beyond your control.

Rather work out, can I still afford it? (Thats the question)

Someone bought a house in my street 18 months ago. His bond is now R8000 more. His place is in the market again. Its scary! (And not here to make you scared). We are in an upward cycle with interest rates. Its not a joke!

Sit and do the sums, and work out whats your “worst case scenario”!
 
Foxhound, reality is something scary! You can pray for a better rate .... but if rates go up, its beyond your control.

Rather work out, can I still afford it? (Thats the question)

Someone bought a house in my street 18 months ago. His bond is now R8000 more. His place is in the market again. Its scary! (And not here to make you scared). We are in an upward cycle with interest rates. Its not a joke!

Sit and do the sums, and work out whats your “worst case scenario”!
Yip, our bond has gone up over 8k since the lowest rate during covid. Is hectic, but we bought before the rate decreases so knew it was going to go up again.

On the bond originators, I have found on the 3 properties I have bought, going direct with my bank got the best rate. I applied direct with my bank and used BO for all others (as they can't apply to yours if you go direct). Suppose it depends on your relationship with your bank. I have multiple other products and been a client for many many years. I would recommend doing it that way, if one of the other banks come lower can always ask your bank to beat it. Is good when trying to get the best rewards tier.

Just for context, I'm with standard bank, so helps with my ucount
 
I have bought and sold many properties, so I am sorry if my advice isn't practical enough. I give it freely: use or lose. :D

I agree with @zerocool2009 that approaching a bank directly is far better, in my own experience anyway.


You are never going to get a home if that is the case, people will simply sell their homes to someone else. You have to sign the OTP, it's a legal document. You can make it "Subject to a satisfactory home inspection report from an independent home assessor " or something along those lines, but no sane seller is going to allow a stranger with a clipboard into their home, climbing into the roof and poking at things, without a signed OTP.
Well it is possible … we’ve seen cases where owners ARE allowing inspections before OTPs are signed, so it feels like a no-brainer for me to do it this way if I have the option. If the owner pushes back that’s ok, then I’ll just rely on the extra clause … but currently “voetstoots” is a concept I’m not keen on. And it’s not that easy for owners to just get OTPs, so they’re obligated to make things work (if they’re not hiding anything).

In your experience, what made dealing directly with banks better than going through bond originators … and which originator had you used that gave you the bad experience?
 
Yip, our bond has gone up over 8k since the lowest rate during covid. Is hectic, but we bought before the rate decreases so knew it was going to go up again.

On the bond originators, I have found on the 3 properties I have bought, going direct with my bank got the best rate. I applied direct with my bank and used BO for all others (as they can't apply to yours if you go direct). Suppose it depends on your relationship with your bank. I have multiple other products and been a client for many many years. I would recommend doing it that way, if one of the other banks come lower can always ask your bank to beat it. Is good when trying to get the best rewards tier.

Just for context, I'm with standard bank, so helps with my ucount

With FNB you get discount on registration costs and rewards as well.

I have a friend who applied at FNB, alot of FNB products to his name, and they gave him a crappy rate.

Using a MO, they applied at SB, and got him prime less 1%.

I think banks wants business as well, as in a clause, offer a good rate, but the client must port banks.

At the end of the day, zero loyalty when you get a bond. Take the best offer. If you want the property, nothing will stop you. (But be proactive with longterm costs). Thats my advice.

And buying your first home: you became an adult! Debt aint always bad.
 
Well it is possible … we’ve seen cases where owners ARE allowing inspections before OTPs are signed, so it feels like a no-brainer for me to do it this way if I have the option. If the owner pushes back that’s ok, then I’ll just rely on the extra clause … but currently “voetstoots” is a concept I’m not keen on. And it’s not that easy for owners to just get OTPs, so they’re obligated to make things work (if they’re not hiding anything).

In your experience, what made dealing directly with banks better than going through bond originators … and which originator had you used that gave you the bad experience?
Hi Foxhound. Do some reading up on latent vs patent defects ito voetstoets when purchasing a home. It will place you in a better and more knowledgeable space when dealing with the inspector, when you go that route.
 
Well it is possible … we’ve seen cases where owners ARE allowing inspections before OTPs are signed, so it feels like a no-brainer for me to do it this way if I have the option. If the owner pushes back that’s ok, then I’ll just rely on the extra clause … but currently “voetstoots” is a concept I’m not keen on. And it’s not that easy for owners to just get OTPs, so they’re obligated to make things work (if they’re not hiding anything).

In your experience, what made dealing directly with banks better than going through bond originators … and which originator had you used that gave you the bad experience?

A big note, add this in your OTP, if its a full title house, make sure approved plans exists and are in spec!

Voetstoots are reality. I have a 200 item checklist if you are keen. From plumbing, to sectional title finances as examples must be in order.
 
Hi Foxhound. Do some reading up on latent vs patent defects ito voetstoets when purchasing a home. It will place you in a better and more knowledgeable space when dealing with the inspector, when you go that route.
Lol I’ve done so much reading my eyes are crossing already. What do I need to know? If I get the home inspection done before signing the OTP and don’t like any red flags in the report, I can walk away free and clear from the deal. At least that’s my hope!
 
Well it is possible … we’ve seen cases where owners ARE allowing inspections before OTPs are signed, so it feels like a no-brainer for me to do it this way if I have the option. If the owner pushes back that’s ok, then I’ll just rely on the extra clause … but currently “voetstoots” is a concept I’m not keen on. And it’s not that easy for owners to just get OTPs, so they’re obligated to make things work (if they’re not hiding anything).
If I were a buyer, there is no way that I am going to part with 4K for a home inspection if I don't have commitment from the seller. I guess that I have always bought properties that were bargains and in high demand, so no time for messing around. And when I sold, I have always priced to sell, never been on the market for more than 2 weeks.
But maybe that's just me, my own context, and I have my own methodical way of inspecting and valuing a property. I have only used home inspection services where there is a clear problem, and the intent is always to use the report to negotiate even further.
In your experience, what made dealing directly with banks better than going through bond originators … and which originator had you used that gave you the bad experience?
Bond originators talk a good game, and they use language that suggests that they are in your corner, but they actually value their relationship with the lenders far more than their relationship with you as the loan-seeker. Let's be honest, Average Joe buys a home 3 or maybe 4 times in his life, so BOs don't bet on much return business. In contrast, they deal every single day with the staff of the banks, for many, many years, and it is not uncommon for them to foster relationships with them, invite and get invited to braais, attend their children's christening / bar mitzvahs, or kitchen teas and other hens' parties. Average Joe is just a fleeting meal-ticket, in their lives for maybe 3-4 weeks if they are lucky. BOs are mainly women, who after all, are social creatures. Can you see the odds being stacked in the banks' favour?

I once purchased a property where the (small independent) BO was "highly recommended" by the agent, so I thought cool, let's give it a try. Communication was lacklustre, initial results were shocking and it was clear to me that she was just an unnecessary intermediary, playing "post office" with applications and quotes and never challenging anything with the banks. I initially coached her on some risk management concepts, and then after a few weeks I saw that I was running out of allotted time (another tool in their box of tricks), so stop-loss strategy kicked in and instead of accepting the pathetic offers that she suggested, I summarily removed her mandate. I then went straight to my preferred bank, who gave me quite a few points better than what they originally quoted her. All my own fault of course, allowing the agent to speak a hole in my head. Even today, I kick myself for being misled.
 
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With FNB you get discount on registration costs and rewards as well.

I have a friend who applied at FNB, alot of FNB products to his name, and they gave him a crappy rate.

Using a MO, they applied at SB, and got him prime less 1%.

I think banks wants business as well, as in a clause, offer a good rate, but the client must port banks.

At the end of the day, zero loyalty when you get a bond. Take the best offer. If you want the property, nothing will stop you. (But be proactive with longterm costs). Thats my advice.

And buying your first home: you became an adult! Debt aint always bad.
Our current house, we got approval with FNB but they wanted us to port our salary bank account to them as part of the deal and wasn't even a great rate.

Crazy and for sure always just take best deal, no loyalty but in my case my bank always offered the best
 
And that puts you at a disadvantage with the banks because you have revealed your hand prematurely.

Rather use "...subject to and conditional upon the purchaser arranging financing at a reasonable rate of interest."
Hmmm. I'm not sure about this. I've always put the loan amount and interest percent specifically into the offer. Every time I've gotten a loan for less interest. That said I've always played banks against each other.

I wouldn't say it's bad to put in your maximum tolerable interest rate in the OTP to protect yourself
 
what made dealing directly with banks better than going through bond originators … and which originator had you used that gave you the bad experience?

Simple answer - better rates. After a number of buys a BO has never beaten direct. And, once the initial offers are in you play the top 2/3 against one another. Only settled last purchase after 3 rounds of back and forth. Every time getting lower rate offer. And if you can negotiate transfer and registration to be done by your bank you can negotiate lower legal fees with the bank.
 
Does anybody have experience with a sectional title which has no body corporate structures, no levies and no shared building insurance?

I have come across a sectional title with only three houses on the large, subdivided property. They are all run independently of each other and share maintenance costs out of good will when required but there is nothing in writing. There are also no levies and no rules.

In terms of South Africa’s laws on sectional titles, which I’ve been advised require all the above normal shared structures (including trustees and audited cash flow etc) is this even legal? Do the rules not apply to fewer than five properties or some lower threshold?
 
Does anybody have experience with a sectional title which has no body corporate structures, no levies and no shared building insurance?

I have come across a sectional title with only three houses on the large, subdivided property. They are all run independently of each other and share maintenance costs out of good will when required but there is nothing in writing. There are also no levies and no rules.

In terms of South Africa’s laws on sectional titles, which I’ve been advised require all the above normal shared structures (including trustees and audited cash flow etc) is this even legal? Do the rules not apply to fewer than five properties or some lower threshold?
Many developers are doing just that, although I have only seen two homes on one property, not three. I suspect that this is where it gets tricky, two is company, three is a crowd.

It isn't legal, and the moment CSOS realises that they are losing out on revenue, they will be fined and dealt with.
 
@Foxhound5366 .... thinking about last nights comments and chats on this forum ....
The questions are rather :
1) Do you want the property you are eyeing ?
2) Can you afford it ?
3) Worse case scenario -> Can you still afford it ?

The inspection and bond requirement is least of your issues. Answer question 1 to 3 truthfully, and if you have 1% doubt, walk away (and save for a bigger deposit), or rather wait for the next one your heart wants.
 
@Foxhound5366 .... thinking about last nights comments and chats on this forum ....
The questions are rather :
1) Do you want the property you are eyeing ?
2) Can you afford it ?
3) Worse case scenario -> Can you still afford it ?

The inspection and bond requirement is least of your issues. Answer question 1 to 3 truthfully, and if you have 1% doubt, walk away (and save for a bigger deposit), or rather wait for the next one your heart wants.
Zero, the inspection and bond are the largest of my worries. I want the property, and I can afford it (on my bond terms), and so now I’m putting in place measures to protect myself from the house not being in the great state it looks … or me not getting a bond on the terms I feel are favourable.
 
Many developers are doing just that, although I have only seen two homes on one property, not three. I suspect that this is where it gets tricky, two is company, three is a crowd.

It isn't legal, and the moment CSOS realises that they are losing out on revenue, they will be fined and dealt with.
My wonder is why banks are allowing it through financing. Aren’t they also potentially in the firing line? I guess they wash their hands of it. I wonder who is ultimately liable: the agent who sells people into illegal arrangements, or the person who unwittingly buys in without knowing any better.
 
Zero, the inspection and bond are the largest of my worries. I want the property, and I can afford it (on my bond terms), and so now I’m putting in place measures to protect myself from the house not being in the great state it looks … or me not getting a bond on the terms I feel are favourable.
I'd suggest making sure that you have a few grand in the bank because any property will have some latent issues that are going to come up at the most inconvenient time. In my case everything seemed fine but about a year in I needed to replace the roof which ... cost quite a bit.
 
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