Offer to purchase question

[Toxxyc]

1. Is the seller going to cover the R200k electricity debt before sale? You don't want to be inheriting that.
2. Is the seller going to ensure that you can take empty occupation, and get the people living there to move out (at the seller's expense) before or upon sale? That's a potentially very expensive task.

I'd be interested in knowing, please, whether you've managed to get the seller's agreement on these two points. And if so, how you and seller have phrased this in your contract. And what the penalties/remedies would be, if seller defaults on this.

1. Yes. See here: https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/co...wners-not-liable-for-old-owners-unpaid-bills/
2. I honestly don't know. They know they have to leave, but I'm not sure what's going to happen there. If the sale goes through, that same day I start breaking inside the house. There's no wall of fence, so it's very possible that robbers can come in and steal everything.

EDIT: On Point 2, the contract just says that I'll get occupancy of the property on registration. Can't occupy it with people in there, so if there are people in there I'll demand rent and to have them removed (I'm entitled to that, according to the contract).

 

[/dev/null]

1. Yes. See here: https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/co...wners-not-liable-for-old-owners-unpaid-bills/
2. I honestly don't know. They know they have to leave, but I'm not sure what's going to happen there. If the sale goes through, that same day I start breaking inside the house. There's no wall of fence, so it's very possible that robbers can come in and steal everything.

EDIT: On Point 2, the contract just says that I'll get occupancy of the property on registration. Can't occupy it with people in there, so if there are people in there I'll demand rent and to have them removed (I'm entitled to that, according to the contract).

Will the rate clearance certificate be sorted out for this sale? From the many posts in this thread, it seems this certificate is important and can put brakes on the process.

 

[Sepeng]

1. Yes. See here: https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/co...wners-not-liable-for-old-owners-unpaid-bills/
2. I honestly don't know. They know they have to leave, but I'm not sure what's going to happen there. If the sale goes through, that same day I start breaking inside the house. There's no wall of fence, so it's very possible that robbers can come in and steal everything.

EDIT: On Point 2, the contract just says that I'll get occupancy of the property on registration. Can't occupy it with people in there, so if there are people in there I'll demand rent and to have them removed (I'm entitled to that, according to the contract).

Yeah look, the state of the house and unpaid bills are one thing, having people removed is quite another.
Two friends bought places where the people inside simply refused to move for a bunch of reasons. One said they had nowhere to go and our laws say something along the lines of people can't be kicked out onto the street. Another said the house had no right to be sold and took the bank to court (was an auction so slightly different). Took two years to get them out.
Just saying, getting rid of people is very tricky if they simply don't want to leave, contract or no. We personally won't touch a place if there's a domestic that lives on the property cos of things like this.

 

[PhireSide]

I hope OP doesn't mind that I am shoe-horning my way in here as well.

We signed an OTP last week and sold our place a day later. Ours was in the market for 13 hours before we found the seller. They offered 98% of asking price so we accepted. It's definitely a seller's market, especially down here in PE.

We are hoping for the property we purchased to be registered before the end of the year, but understandably there will be delays, more so than when we bought two years ago, but we are in no hurry.

Best of luck to all in the same boat, and may your purchases also be smooth sailing!

 

[Speedster]

I hope OP doesn't mind that I am shoe-horning my way in here as well.

We signed an OTP last week and sold our place a day later. Ours was in the market for 13 hours before we found the seller. They offered 98% of asking price so we accepted. It's definitely a seller's market, especially down here in PE.

We are hoping for the property we purchased to be registered before the end of the year, but understandably there will be delays, more so than when we bought two years ago, but we are in no hurry.

Best of luck to all in the same boat, and may your purchases also be smooth sailing!

There's a lot of selling / buying going on by us forumites.

 

[APoc184]

I hope OP doesn't mind that I am shoe-horning my way in here as well.

We signed an OTP last week and sold our place a day later. Ours was in the market for 13 hours before we found the seller. They offered 98% of asking price so we accepted. It's definitely a seller's market, especially down here in PE.

We are hoping for the property we purchased to be registered before the end of the year, but understandably there will be delays, more so than when we bought two years ago, but we are in no hurry.

Best of luck to all in the same boat, and may your purchases also be smooth sailing!

Shoe-horn your way in all the way!! This hasn't been only my thread for such a long time now.
We are pretty much at the finish line with our process anyway and we have learned so so much from each and every input here.

I believe it has also helped many others.

Good luck with your sale and purchase and the process further. Keep us all updated on the progression!

 

[Toxxyc]

Will the rate clearance certificate be sorted out for this sale? From the many posts in this thread, it seems this certificate is important and can put brakes on the process.

House is in a deceased estate, so yeah the lawyers will sort it all out. I was told by the agent that it's one of the reasons they want to sell the place ASAP - the lawyers are livid that the owner let it go this far.

Yeah look, the state of the house and unpaid bills are one thing, having people removed is quite another.
Two friends bought places where the people inside simply refused to move for a bunch of reasons. One said they had nowhere to go and our laws say something along the lines of people can't be kicked out onto the street. Another said the house had no right to be sold and took the bank to court (was an auction so slightly different). Took two years to get them out.
Just saying, getting rid of people is very tricky if they simply don't want to leave, contract or no. We personally won't touch a place if there's a domestic that lives on the property cos of things like this.

Look it's very simple. If they stay in the house, I'll claim all the damages I'm allowed to according to the contract. It's something like the value of the sale at prime + 10% PA if I can't take occupancy. That works out to more paid per month than what I pay for rent per month, so I can keep on staying where I'm staying, start paying my bond over there with the incoming money and have change to have the people evicted. I know it's not that simple and I know it's not that easy, but I had to take a chance because I'm not coming right anywhere else. I need to move (we stay in a great house on a **** yard), and it's causing numerous problems (no space for kids or dogs anymore, summer heat + flies is a nightmare, lack of sunlight in winter turns the entire back yard into a slab of dirt, etc). So I just had to take a chance.

 

[Sepeng]

House is in a deceased estate, so yeah the lawyers will sort it all out. I was told by the agent that it's one of the reasons they want to sell the place ASAP - the lawyers are livid that the owner let it go this far.



Look it's very simple. If they stay in the house, I'll claim all the damages I'm allowed to according to the contract. It's something like the value of the sale at prime + 10% PA if I can't take occupancy. That works out to more paid per month than what I pay for rent per month, so I can keep on staying where I'm staying, start paying my bond over there with the incoming money and have change to have the people evicted. I know it's not that simple and I know it's not that easy, but I had to take a chance because I'm not coming right anywhere else. I need to move (we stay in a great house on a **** yard), and it's causing numerous problems (no space for kids or dogs anymore, summer heat + flies is a nightmare, lack of sunlight in winter turns the entire back yard into a slab of dirt, etc). So I just had to take a chance.

Cool, Yeah I understand, as long as you're going in with eyes wide open and all that, good luck!
Out of interest, who would you be claiming from exactly?

 

[Toxxyc]

Cool, Yeah I understand, as long as you're going in with eyes wide open and all that, good luck!
Out of interest, who would you be claiming from exactly?

The executor of the estate, as I have it.

Also, I called the agent. The people living there had their lease expire already, and they've been given notice to move. So if they stick around, it'll be illegal occupation and I'll get a sheriff to remove them. Luckily I actually know a guy doing just that.

 

[LlamaParty]

Shoe-horn your way in all the way!! This hasn't been only my thread for such a long time now.
We are pretty much at the finish line with our process anyway and we have learned so so much from each and every input here.

I believe it has also helped many others.

Good luck with your sale and purchase and the process further. Keep us all updated on the progression!

Agreed, it's been extremely helpful to be able to follow along with the process from different viewpoints. Knowing what to expect, what issues are likely to come up etc. Made the whole process a lot less scary, especially for first time buyers like us.

 

[APoc184]

Our papers made it to 'Examiner level 3' this morning.

@APoc184 For interest sake, it took 4 days to get assigned to someone but from there it's been moving through the process (looks like 2 days per examiner so far and apparently the last one is quicker):

Assume you have been registered successfully and all is done on your side?

Transfer lodged yesterday Hopefully it's quick and painless from here!

You must be very very close to final registration now?

Amazes how many different hold ups there can be. This thread is a great one all round.

Mine is still sitting for a sars audit as they questioning my purchase price.

Any update from your side regarding the SARS audit? What is the ETA to get this sorted?

 

[LlamaParty]

Assume you have been registered successfully and all is done on your side?



You must be very very close to final registration now?



Any update from your side regarding the SARS audit? What is the ETA to get this sorted?

Ours also took about 4 days to be assigned to an examiner. Today or tomorrow it should be at examiner level 2. We were hoping to move this weekend, but that probably won't be happening

 

[APoc184]

Ours also took about 4 days to be assigned to an examiner. Today or tomorrow it should be at examiner level 2. We were hoping to move this weekend, but that probably won't be happening

Ah schucks...

But what is one more week after 3 months?

Holding thumbs everything is perfect and you registered early next week and get the green light to move! Exciting!

 

[wtg]

Assume you have been registered successfully and all is done on your side?



You must be very very close to final registration now?



Any update from your side regarding the SARS audit? What is the ETA to get this sorted?

Not yet, but I've arranged just under 50% off on early occupation from next weekend due to the seller being the cause of delays with id number etc with sars.

The transfer attorney says we can escalate with Sars if no feedback tomorrow. So expecting something from sars today.

So overall it's not too bad, just hoping that there are no more hiccups. You moving in this weekend? All ready?

 

[APoc184]

Not yet, but I've arranged just under 50% off on early occupation from next weekend due to the seller being the cause of delays with id number etc with sars.

The transfer attorney says we can escalate with Sars if no feedback tomorrow. So expecting something from sars today.

So overall it's not too bad, just hoping that there are no more hiccups. You moving in this weekend? All ready?

Great. So at least you can take occupation and let the process run its course. Congrats.

Yes, we are ready and set to go. And getting excited.

Our move is planned out as follow due to overlapping of all the moves that need to happen. Sellers can only move Sunday morning because their retirement village unit is only available from then because the current tenants could only organise moving company late Saturday afternoon. We have to be out of rental property on Saturday.

• 90% of our stuff is already in self storage on plot of a friend.
• Saturday morning myself and two guys from my workshop will load the remaining beds, couches, tables and fridges, washing machines and also drop it at the plot. 2 bakkies and 1 x trailer. Bargaining on 1 trip. So few things left.
• Going to clean up a bit and then load the dogs to take them to the kennel for the night.
• We are sleeping over on the plot as well. Going to have a lekker relaxing braai and go to bed when we feel like it.
• Seller's moving truck arrives at 8h00 on Sunday morning. Then the old lady asked us so nicely to just let her domestic and gardener clean the garage and all the floors before we can come and get the keys.
• Organised 2 more trailers for Sunday morning.
• Brother in law and sons with another bakkie is coming to help on Sunday. As well as the two workshop guys again. So we will have 3 bakkies and 3 trailers. Hoping to load everything with one trip. But might have to send one bakkie and trailer back for the scraps.
• We should be in by no later than 14h00.
• Priority is just to get curtains up and all boxes and furniture in the correct rooms. Unpacking will be done as we get to it. Wife has leave for a few days next week so can unpack on her own time.

Slightly worried about rain. See it is going to be overcast with isolated showers predicted. But we'll deal with that when we get there. Drop sheets are the way to go for the few km's from plot to home.

 

[Toxxyc]

Good luck with the move mate. Sounds exciting! When I move I hope to do it mid month. It's just cheaper if you use a moving company.

 

[APoc184]

Good luck with the move mate. Sounds exciting! When I move I hope to do it mid month. It's just cheaper if you use a moving company.

Thanks.

Yeah that was the plan here as well. But delays at City of Tshwane with clearance certificates and consents meant that our lodging has been hanging for 4 weeks longer than anticipated. Which means the old people also couldn't move. Their retirement unit purchase and and selling of their house are linked directly.

We even got quotes for removal companies to load us on Saturday afternoon. Keep stuff in the trucks and drop off again on Sunday. But I'll be damned if I pay R10k for that as quoted by most. So going to do it ourselves. Still young and keen and we have the transport means thanks to my line of business.

 

[powermzii]

Great. So at least you can take occupation and let the process run its course. Congrats.

Yes, we are ready and set to go. And getting excited.

Our move is planned out as follow due to overlapping of all the moves that need to happen. Sellers can only move Sunday morning because their retirement village unit is only available from then because the current tenants could only organise moving company late Saturday afternoon. We have to be out of rental property on Saturday.

• 90% of our stuff is already in self storage on plot of a friend.
• Saturday morning myself and two guys from my workshop will load the remaining beds, couches, tables and fridges, washing machines and also drop it at the plot. 2 bakkies and 1 x trailer. Bargaining on 1 trip. So few things left.
• Going to clean up a bit and then load the dogs to take them to the kennel for the night.
• We are sleeping over on the plot as well. Going to have a lekker relaxing braai and go to bed when we feel like it.
• Seller's moving truck arrives at 8h00 on Sunday morning. Then the old lady asked us so nicely to just let her domestic and gardener clean the garage and all the floors before we can come and get the keys.
• Organised 2 more trailers for Sunday morning.
• Brother in law and sons with another bakkie is coming to help on Sunday. As well as the two workshop guys again. So we will have 3 bakkies and 3 trailers. Hoping to load everything with one trip. But might have to send one bakkie and trailer back for the scraps.
• We should be in by no later than 14h00.
• Priority is just to get curtains up and all boxes and furniture in the correct rooms. Unpacking will be done as we get to it. Wife has leave for a few days next week so can unpack on her own time.

Slightly worried about rain. See it is going to be overcast with isolated showers predicted. But we'll deal with that when we get there. Drop sheets are the way to go for the few km's from plot to home.

Goodluck indeed with the move...

 

[APoc184]

Update from our end - Bank did valuation yesterday and sent through the Advice of Grant and Facility letter... YAY.

Sent through to seller for their lawyers to give a once over then we will sign bank docs today. Looking to take occupational rental mid Nov to do some security upgrades and get a pool cover installed (toddler)

So nothing came of the other offer that was supposedly on the table to force you to hurry up?

Property is yours then?

 

[powermzii]

So nothing came of the other offer that was supposedly on the table to force you to hurry up?

Property is yours then?

Pretty much hey - apparently they had issues sorting their sale out. The seller's lawyers had some questions for the bank earlier and this was resolved so we just signed the Advice of Grant.

Should be paying Transfers in the next few days then start planning for the move for end Nov