Official North Korean Thread

[w1z4rd]

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Sorry about that, forgot about it after my swim .

Nope sanctions are a waste of time, all they do is create hatred. Our old government had no choice, looming civil war they decided to go the logical route.

So now i have answered your question and i don't believe sanctions work. Now give me your list of countries where they have worked.

I said i will give you SA even though i don't think sanctions forced their hand. they had a choice civil war or freedom for the black folk they chose correctly, waiting for 4 more countries where sanctions have worked.

Thanks for confirming again that any of these discussions with you is pointless. You see the world in black and white. Sanctions don't cause immediate regime change, therefore they're useless. You completely ignored the nuance and slow progress that I said was usually the case.

As for countries where sanctions have worked... Burma, Zimbabwe, Cuba (to a certain extent). I'm sure there are others.

You completely oversimplify SA's history, too, but that's not a surprise. The fall of apartheid was built up over decades, the sanctions bankrupted the country and isolated the government completely internationally. If there were no sanctions, and the rest of the world carried on as you seem to suggest they should have, then the military state might have been built up even more, prolonging any civil war even more.

You also haven't said what's to be done about countries that threaten their neighbours or the world, or commit crimes against their own people. Should they be left alone?

 

[killadoob]

O yea, let's hope north korea get nailed and we get to see what hot NK chicks look like .

Well orbital tell me iran has been sanctioned for decades, why? what crimes have they committed against their own people for 4 decades?

Explain to me prior to their nuclear ambitions for power why iran has been sanctioned for so many decades? You gonna tell me they don't treat their people fine and blah blah but bahrain who are basically an apartheid regime don't have any sanctions. Saudi's dictatorship, bad human rights etc no sanctions.

Tell me has the sanctions stopped NK developing and testing nukes? Have they stopped iran putting up a nuclear reactor?

All they have done is make NK suicidal and iran hate the west.

Sorry sanctions have worked in Zimbabwe, could you explain to me how they have worked? Mugabe is still able fly and greet the pope after wrecking a great a country.

 

[Hosehead]

You have been banned from /r/pyongyang

I was amazed how long I lasted.

 

[killadoob]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...-bombers-e-6-doomsday-planes-near-north-korea

Seems the US is not taking this situation lightly. Good to see. For once i am supporting the US . Who blinks first? I reckon the US should blink and put the little boy in his place.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

O yea, let's hope north korea get nailed and we get to see what hot NK chicks look like .

Well orbital tell me iran has been sanctioned for decades, why? what crimes have they committed against their own people for 4 decades?

Explain to me prior to their nuclear ambitions for power why iran has been sanctioned for so many decades? You gonna tell me they don't treat their people fine and blah blah but bahrain who are basically an apartheid regime don't have any sanctions. Saudi's dictatorship, bad human rights etc no sanctions.

Tell me has the sanctions stopped NK developing and testing nukes? Have they stopped iran putting up a nuclear reactor?

All they have done is make NK suicidal and iran hate the west.

Sorry sanctions have worked in Zimbabwe, could you explain to me how they have worked? Mugabe is still able fly and greet the pope after wrecking a great a country.

Iran founded and supports Hezbollah for example.

The sanctions against NK has stopped them from getting any proper military equipment for one thing. They're using old soviet tech, and it's terrible. They can't even launch a satellite properly without the thing crashing or burning up.

In Zim it got Mugabe to draft a new constitution placing a limit on presidential terms. And they're getting elections. Whether ol' Bob would accept defeat or actually ensure that it's free and fair remains to be seen.

As I said, it's a very slow process if any ground is made. If the alternative is war, then I prefer diplomatic pressure.

You still haven't given an alternative, btw. Must be about the 4th time I've asked now. What do we do with countries that threaten their neighbours, or commit crimes against their people? Should we leave them alone?

 

[killadoob]

They launched a rocket perfectly fine, put a satellite in space all under sanctions and they even tested a nuke with sanctions in place. Wow those sanctions are working. Are you telling me the US has never had missile or technology go wrong? the world laughed when NK launched a rocket and it went wrong but they never laughed when they put a satellite in space/orbit.

Add more sanctions and they threaten to nuke people. So sanctions have brought us to the brink of nuclear war. Sounds like a solid way of forcing someone's hand.

The alternative to sanctions, we know sanctions do not work. There is no answer. When you have two sets of rules there can never be a solution. Bahrain for instance should be sanctioned something horrific, they banned protesting for heavens sake. If iran banned protesting people would call for an attack.

Let me show you something, we know iran support certain terrorist groups but the US and russia more than likely do it as well so it isn't uncommon for the US to support a terrorist group, well again terrorist group is what the US decides.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/w...-bans-all-protests-in-new-crackdown.html?_r=0

Now bahrain bans protesting, basically runs an apartheid regime and they get no sanctions or threats. Now iran is a democratic country and they have been sanctioned for 4 decades for what? So you tell me how is it possible to impose very bad sanctions for iran while a country like bahrain gets support? Sadly i don't have the answer because the rules do not apply to everyone. So you impose sanctions on iran for 4 decades, doesn't change anything. Bahrain can have zero democracy, ban protesting, run a dictatorship and rule the majority without so much as a possible sanction for them.

What i do know is sanctions do not work and only make countries more determined and hostile, i also know the rules are not the same for everyone so my answer to your question is i don't know. Different rules and double standards makes it impossible to ever find a solution that is viable. Iran will look at bahrain and think ummmm WTF is going on, why is a dictatorship ruling the majority and banning protesting but we have been sanctioned for 4 decades, what have we done wrong? Do you agree the rules do not apply to everyone? Saudi arabia as well, they fund and support the taliban. No sanctions, no democracy, dictatorship. So how can i or anyone give you an answer when the rules are different? To me it seems simple, if you support the US you will be sanction free and you can do as you like, if you don't you will be sanctioned. How can anyone ever find a solution to that kind to that kind of problem?

What about countries that kill people outside their country, launch illegal wars and drop chemicals over entire countries? Why are they sanction free? Why is the most war mongering nation allowed to do as they please and avoid sanctions? They set the rules and the rules are not the same for everyone, pro US = fine, anti US = regime change and sanctions.

Tell me why is it the US supported libya and iraq at one point and even gave saddam chemical weapons which he then used on his own people, HTF do you give countries chemical weapons and get away with it? Then 2 decades later you invade and remove the same regime that was funded and given chemical weapons when they are not killing anyone. Until the same rules are applied to every country there is no answer but that does not mean sanctions are the answer.

Who funded and supported al queda orbital? Hezbollah is supported by iran but i think we both know the US have supported terrorists groups yet no sanctions for them. So again different rules applied. Qatar and saudi arabia are without a doubt funding the taliban, they even want to open a taliban office in Qatar, surely the taliban are terrorists? Why no sanctions for the people supporting them?

http://dohanews.co/post/10158037661/report-us-supports-taliban-plan-to-open-office-in

Supporting the opening of an office for the taliban, then again it depends if the US have declared them a terrorist organization which i am sure they have. Can you imagine them allowing hezbollah to open an office in egypt for peace? No ways. Incredibly the taliban are not considered a terrorist organization by the US . Just goes to show you how fked up the world is when the taliban are not considered a terrorist organization.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Why are you unable to have any discussion without dragging the USA into it? The USA aren't the only country in the world applying sanctions to these countries.

Of course there are double standards, this is international politics. As I said, we don't live in an ideal world where if you do something wrong you get wrapped over the knuckles and you stop. It's a lot more nebulous and complicated than that.

Why are you saying Bahrain should be sanctioned if they don't work?

And yeah, so you don't know? So should we just leave them to it, because we can't sanction every country that does something wrong?

 

[Lord Nikon6]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...-bombers-e-6-doomsday-planes-near-north-korea

Seems the US is not taking this situation lightly. Good to see. For once i am supporting the US . Who blinks first? I reckon the US should blink and put the little boy in his place.

Does the US ever take anything lightly? I believe the country is hungry for war. When Obama just came into power, apparantly the military men were not fond of him, as they didn't see him as a "war-friendly" person. He then decided to release more troops to Afghanistan, at the time, it won over some of the generals.

Also, they are deploying drones everywhere, like they are some sort of global authority...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Also, they are deploying drones everywhere, like they are some sort of global authority...

It's usually at the behest of the country they're operating in.

 

[killadoob]

Why are you unable to have any discussion without dragging the USA into it? The USA aren't the only country in the world applying sanctions to these countries.

Of course there are double standards, this is international politics. As I said, we don't live in an ideal world where if you do something wrong you get wrapped over the knuckles and you stop. It's a lot more nebulous and complicated than that.

Why are you saying Bahrain should be sanctioned if they don't work?

And yeah, so you don't know? So should we just leave them to it, because we can't sanction every country that does something wrong?

Please explain the guidelines and then please explain why those guidelines are only applied to anti US countries, their buddies can do what they like.

Bahrain should not be sanctioned but the saudi's should be forced to leave the situation and they should not be allowed to roll their tanks into bahrain to help an apartheid regime hold onto power. Why isn't the US stopping that?

Bahrain is almost identical to our old regime yet no sanctions or world wide condemnation purely because the US has a base and they are buddies.

The current sanctions do not work because they are biased, naughty countries friendly with the US escape them, naughty countries who are considered anti west get slammed by them. It's an unfair system where different rules are applied and that is why they don't work. They isolate those countries and make the country feel like they are being picked on. That drives hatred and anti western attitudes.

Same rules for everyone and sanctions would have a bigger impact.

Do you agree that sanctions are applied to countries considered anti west but countries pro west who are worse or doing the same thing escape sanctions?

 

[Hosehead]

I believe the country is hungry for war.
..

Not. They are overstretched and don't have the troops for a ground war anywhere else.
Drones are easily disposable as the Iranians proved.

 

[Space_Chief]

Bahrain is almost identical to our old regime yet no sanctions or world wide condemnation purely because the US has a base and they are buddies.

It's a stupid thing of the West to try to help these revolutions in Egypt, Libya and Syria. What will happen is that you'll get more fundamentalist groups in control.

 

[killadoob]

It's a stupid thing of the West to try to help these revolutions in Egypt, Libya and Syria. What will happen is that you'll get more fundamentalist groups in control.

It is stupid, look egypt the west didn't support, they had a western dictator in power so it was fine but they knew his time was up. then again the egypian people now sit with a worse regime than before and are protesting against the same government they elected.

So i dunno these muslims needs move out of the stone age. The americans know over throwing governments will lead to chaos, it's what they want. They need to keep the machine running and they do so by destabilizing regions/countries, either directly or indirectly.

 

[Space_Chief]

So i dunno these muslims needs move out of the stone age.

They can choose what they want, even choices we don't like. That's democracy.

People need to stop interfering in the lives of others.

Americans don't want chaos. Unless it's to protect Israel. It would be better to have Mubarak and Assad in power for them. The guys who will come after Assad will export more terrorism.

 

[Celine]

i do not believe for one millisecond that any country would be stupid enough to launch any nuclear missile of any sort against any country. even if it is a country they don't like i.e. NK and SK. this would be suicide on their part knowing that the rest of the world would be ready to counter attack within seconds.

 

[killadoob]

i do not believe for one millisecond that any country would be stupid enough to launch any nuclear missile of any sort against any country. even if it is a country they don't like i.e. NK and SK. this would be suicide on their part knowing that the rest of the world would be ready to counter attack within seconds.

Do you think anyone would have been stupid enough to attack the mighty giant in WW2 ensuring they ended up nuking your country? You would think nobody in their mind would attack the US when they were not really involved in the war but yet they had a stupid crazy leader and he ended up getting them nuked.

Don't ever underestimate the stupidity of the human race and never underestimate leaders who think they are untouchable.

 

[daveza]

Was Japan aware of the fact that the US had nukes ?

If they had been aware do you think they would still have pulled the tigers tail ?

 

[killadoob]

Was Japan aware of the fact that the US had nukes ?

If they had been aware do you think they would still have pulled the tigers tail ?

Nope, did they know the the US would become a major issue if they attacked pearl harbour?

I will use a quote from the movie, we have woken up a sleeping giant. The japs to their credit made a major cock up, they were expecting more carriers to be in pearl harbour but either way an intelligent leader would not have poked the sleeping giant.

 

[daveza]

Nope, did they know the the US would become a major issue if they attacked pearl harbour?

Well then this time is different.

NK know full well the schitstorm that will fall on them if they send a missile towards the US.

In any other society Fatboy would have been carted off to the mental asylum.