Old DB breaker replace

joker247 said:
I am moving a stove point as the existing wiring for the stove will be replaced until the breaker and as everything is about 45 years old I though it would be best to replace the breaker as well. I am sure the existing stove wire could be extended to the new stove point location using the existing breaker. I don't know if this would be the best approach though. The existing stove wire would have been carrying heavy current for around 5 decades could it have deteriorated in that time so I have a brand new stove not working as it should?
Click to expand...

If you are busy doing renovations best to replace it now while you can, if it's in conduit all the better then just lay a new 4mm or 6mm cable. You can test the condition of the wire with an insulation resistance tester.
 
krieg said:
If you are busy doing renovations best to replace it now while you can, if it's in conduit all the better then just lay a new 4mm or 6mm cable. You can test the condition of the wire with an insulation resistance tester.
Click to expand...
6mm sq is overkill, 4 mm sq is enough for a stove. Changing the wiring makes sense if the location is different from the old position. New conduit and cable. But the CB will only need changing if it is no longer working as it should. It also makes sense if it is a double pole, not a single pole. And the answer is a suitable adaptor plate.
The default choice for me would be CBi but any make approved and registered for use in SA complying to the relevant SANS spec is fine.
How about a pic of your DB?
 
Sorry to revive this old thread, but it sounds like here are some knowledgeable folks that might be able to help me.
I want to update my DB by replacing some breakers and adding some. The stuff I want to add is DIN rail only.
Presently, it looks like the rail is a mini rail? It is an old house.
Will the items not blanked out in my pic fit on a mini rail? How can I confirm this before stripping the DB?
Will it be simple/easy to convert to DIN rail?
BBBB.jpgAAA.jpg
 
I dunno but those look like mini rail to me.
 
Swa said:
I dunno but those look like mini rail to me.
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That's what I'm hoping for, then I'll rip the existing rail out and fit a DIN rail - will make any future mods much simpler, but don't want to have to go shopping once the DB is stripped......
 
Old Fuchsware breaker board with mini rail adaptor plates added (2 CBs per old Fuchsware breaker. Will need a conversion plate to go to DIN,

Gets very messy if done piecemeal. Rather either replace all the breakers or consolidate the current breakers on one side and add new breakers in the open space created. Or, stick to the same breaker profiles as you have.
What is this hangup everyone has with DIN rail breakers anyway? The link:

Miniature Circuit Breaker Accessories | CBI-electric (Circuit Breaker Industries)

cbi-lowvoltage.co.za cbi-lowvoltage.co.za

Link to data sheet:

https://cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/CBI_ACCESSORIES_SERIES_DAT_25102017.pdf

1634406401005.png1634406425187.png

1634407696051.png
 
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Geoff.D said:
OLd Fuchs ware breaker board with mini rail adaptor plates added (2 CBs per old Fuchsware breaker. Will need a conversion plate to go to DIN,

Gets very messy if done piecemeal. Rather either replace al the breakers consolidate the current breakers on one side and add new breakers in the open space created. Or, stick to the same breaker profiles as you have.
What is this hangup everyone has with DIN rail breakers anyway?
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thanks Geoff, many new Wifi enabled smart breakers only come in DIN format.
Do my existing breakers and earth leakage look DIN capable?
Would it be easy to rip the Fuchs board out and just fit a DIN rail?
 
Bundu said:
thanks Geoff, many new Wifi enabled smart breakers only come in DIN format.
Do my existing breakers and earth leakage look DIN capable?
Would it be easy to rip the Fuchs board out and just fit a DIN rail?
Click to expand...
Maybe you should post what you currently have. It doesn't look like either DIN or mini rail. The bottom pic looks like mini rail. Here's a DIN breaker
1634407278361.png
It's larger than a mini breaker. You can fit a converter plate for the few things that don't come in mini rail but most do.
 
Swa said:
Maybe you should post what you currently have. It doesn't look like either DIN or mini rail. The bottom pic looks like mini rail. Here's a DIN breaker
View attachment 1168642
It's larger than a mini breaker. You can fit a converter plate for the few things that don't come in mini rail but most do.
Click to expand...
This is all I can presently see, without stripping stuff out - the items with the yellow "X" I plan on removing and replacing with other DIN itemsAAA.jpg
 
So maybe my main questions are:
Can the remaining items be fitted to a DIN rail, without convertor?
Will the old rail probably be easy to remove and be replaced by a DIN rail?
 
Bundu said:
thanks Geoff, many new Wifi enabled smart breakers only come in DIN format.
Do my existing breakers and earth leakage look DIN capable?
Would it be easy to rip the Fuchs board out and just fit a DIN rail?
Click to expand...
That you won't know without examining the backboard. My old Fuchsware board it is an integral part of the
board itself. That means chopping out the old board and replacing it with a new one, hence why I went for adaptor plates.

Not sure about CBi mini rail breakers fitting onto a DIN rail. That you might have to verify with CBi. The reverse is true however -- they do make adaptor plates for DIN breakers.
 
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Bundu said:
So maybe my main questions are:
Can the remaining items be fitted to a DIN rail, without convertor?
Will the old rail probably be easy to remove and be replaced by a DIN rail?
Click to expand...
The two Fuchsware breakers ( the big ones can easily be replaced, giving you 2 more MCBs for each. The timer can be replaced with a DIN rail breaker via an adaptor plate.

What are those two in the middle? Can't see the labelling? Seem to be some sort of SPD?
Bundu said:
This is all I can presently see, without stripping stuff out - the items with the yellow "X" I plan on removing and replacing with other DIN itemsView attachment 1168646
Click to expand...
From left to right:
double pole isolator, ELCB, stove isolator?, Geyser?
 
Bundu said:
So maybe my main questions are:
Can the remaining items be fitted to a DIN rail, without convertor?
Will the old rail probably be easy to remove and be replaced by a DIN rail?
Click to expand...
That looks like a mix and match. Don't know what the main plate looks like but it could be Heinemann. You'd be better off replacing it but as said that could mean replacing the whole box.
 
Geoff.D said:
The two Fuchsware breakers ( the big ones can easily be replaced, giving you 2 more MCBs for each. The timer can be replaced with a DIN rail breaker via an adaptor plate.

What are those two in the middle? Can't see the labelling? Seem to be some sort of SPD?

From left to right:
double pole isolator, ELCB, stove isolator?, Geyser?
Click to expand...
yes, items from left to right: main/earth leakage/geyser1/stove/geyser2/out building/surge L/surge N/pool/pool timer/3 x plugs/2 x lights
 
Swa said:
That looks like a mix and match. Don't know what the main plate looks like but it could be Heinemann. You'd be better off replacing it but as said that could mean replacing the whole box.
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I'm getting the feeling that I'll have to strip, pray, and if that doesn't work, make temp connections and go shopping..... not what I wanted :-(
 
The SPDs can be replaced with one unit these days as well taking up less space. The surge protection is connected to the outbuilding feeds? Interesting.

A rewire will see lots of changes to comply with the new rules.
 
Bundu said:
yes, I've already bought one of these https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/[email protected]?v=1623413805

So I take it the outbuilding should have its own SPD?
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I would move the SPDs to before or just after the mains isolator instead of where they are now. And would install a second one in the outbuilding DB board.
Secondly, I would as a matter of principle, stick to locally made and approved CBs from someone like CBi,

I don't understand this tendency to believe stuff made overseas is better than local.

The ELCB unit is also quite bulky with much more streamlined units available as well.

It really depends on what you all want to do.
 
Bundu said:
So maybe my main questions are:
Can the remaining items be fitted to a DIN rail, without convertor?
Will the old rail probably be easy to remove and be replaced by a DIN rail?
Click to expand...
Check the part numbers of the CBi products you have on their website and see if they are mini and DIN rail compatible. Looking that the pic, you may well find many of them are. Certainly, the CBs on the RHS are.
 
Bundu said:
This is all I can presently see, without stripping stuff out - the items with the yellow "X" I plan on removing and replacing with other DIN itemsView attachment 1168646
Click to expand...

You might as well change everything over to DIN. Had the same board setup and I removed the plate holding the circuit breakers which is spot welded on and replaced it with a DIN rail. You will need a new front cover plate as the DIN breakers are shorter than the CBI's height.

I would actually rip the existing board out and put in a DIN rail with terminals to extend the wires and then install a new DB box on top of the old one.

Also have a look at the Schneider Easy9 range, R70 single pole CB, R140 double pole CB, R210 for an earth leakage, a lot cheaper than CBI.
 
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