Ongoing Israeli atrocities thread.

[OrbitalDawn]

When Israel made a serious attempt to recognise the Palestinian state as part of the Oslo peace talks the Palestinians repaid that good will by launching wave after wave of terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians. The Palestinians don't want peace, they wanted to kill as many Israelis as possible. Israel are not innocent but they are the better of the two sides.

The PLO recognised Israel's right to exist in the Oslo Accords and Israel repaid that good will by continuing settlement expansions on occupied land. And Netanyahu's government spent years undermining the Accords in every way possible thereafter, ensuring it wouldn't succeed. The Israelis don't want peace, they want to continue ethnically cleansing Palestinians and illegally occupying their land.

Ho hum.

In 2000 Israel offered the entire Gaza Strip, a Palestinian capital in a part of East Jerusalem, 73% of the West Bank (excluding eastern Jerusalem) raising to 90–94% after 10–25 years, and financial reparations for Palestinian refugees for peace. Arafat turned down the offer without making a counter-offer. The Palestinians turned down their own state opting instead for murdering Israeli civilians.

Israel never actually offered anything, it was all spoken 'ideas' or 'frameworks for negotiations', and the Palestinian negotiators had good reason to be sceptical, considering the Israeli's failure to honour their own previous commitments prior to Camp David. They didn't stop settlement expansions, they didn't remove villages which they committed to removing etc.

The 'offer' was a non-viable carving up of areas that would actually be under Palestinian control. It's a deal that Israel never would have accepted, either.

In 1988 the Palestinian National Council had already agreed on a two-state solution where the future Palestinian state would exist alongside Israel, and only have 22% of historical Palestine under its control. This was their starting point, yet Israel could never come up with any proposal that would actually have a viable Palestinian state as a result. They always insert ridiculous caveats in about still controlling Palestinian airspace, arbitrarily being allowed to re-occupy the areas etc. and then claim the Palestinians cause it to fail. To repeat, these are always deals Israel would themselves never settle for.

There is absolutely no chance that the Palestinians ever negotiate with any form of good will in future.

And there is no chance that Israel negotiates in good will, based on their own conduct throughout all the negotiations thus far.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Palestinian families homeless as Israeli military demolishes West Bank houses

Israeli bulldozers destroy 23 houses in two West Bank villages within controversial ‘military’ zone in one of biggest demolitions of recent years.

Israeli military bulldozers have demolished 23 houses in two impoverished southern West Bank villages, including structures that were home to more than 100 people.

The demolitions, one of the most significant in recent memory, occurred in a controversial Israeli-designated military area known as Firing Zone 918, which comprises approximately 115 square miles (300 sq km) and was declared restricted by the Israelis in the 1970s.

The action came despite a long-running and internationally high-profile campaign to protect the eight villages in the zone, including a petition signed by some of the world’s most famous authors.

Human rights groups have repeatedly challenged Israel’s claim to the land, arguing it is illegal to establish a military zone in occupied territory. Tuesday’s demolitions were described by the Israeli veterans group Breaking the Silence – which has long supported the villages – as one of the biggest demolitions in the past decade.

Israeli bulldozers moved into Khirbet Jenbah and the nearby hamlet of Khirbat el-Halawa just after dawn on Tuesday morning, destroying a dozen homes in Jenbah itself as well as other structures, some of which are funded by European countries including the UK.

According to Israeli NGO Peace Now, among the 110 people made homeless during the demolitions were dozens of children from 12 different families.

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

Israel never actually offered anything, it was all spoken 'ideas' or 'frameworks for negotiations', and the Palestinian negotiators had good reason to be sceptical, considering the Israeli's failure to honour their own previous commitments prior to Camp David. They didn't stop settlement expansions, they didn't remove villages which they committed to removing etc.
...
The 'offer' was a non-viable carving up of areas that would actually be under Palestinian control. It's a deal that Israel never would have accepted, either.
...
And there is no chance that Israel negotiates in good will, based on their own conduct throughout all the negotiations thus far.

This is retroactively changing the facts as they were. The offer was a documented offer put in front of Arrafat in front of neutral observers. Saying it never happened doesn't mean it never happened. The Palestinians are only interested in the end of the state of Israel and they don't care how many of their own citizens they have to martyr to achieve their goal.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

This is retroactively changing the facts as they were. The offer was a documented offer put in front of Arrafat in front of neutral observers. Saying it never happened doesn't mean it never happened. The Palestinians are only interested in the end of the state of Israel and they don't care how many of their own citizens they have to martyr to achieve their goal.

You're lying, unsurprisingly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

The negotiations were based on an all or nothing approach, such that "nothing was considered agreed and binding until everything was agreed." The proposals were, for the most part, verbal. As no agreement was reached and there is no official written record of the proposals, some ambiguity remains over details of the positions of the parties on specific issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jul/20/comment

Strictly speaking, there never was an Israeli offer. Determined to preserve Israel's position in the event of failure, the Israelis always stopped one, if not several, steps short of a proposal.

The ideas put forward at Camp David were never stated in writing, but orally conveyed.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/01/generous-bantustans-checkpoints/

Particularly revealing was the forthright assessment of Ze’ev Schiff, the dean of Israel’s military/security journalists and a centrist in the Israeli political spectrum.

According to Schiff, because of Barak’s ongoing violations of the spirit of the Oslo agreements—“above all . . . the relentless expansion of the existing settlements and the establishment of new settlements, with a concomitant expropriation of Palestinian land . . . in and around Jerusalem, and elsewhere as well”—the Palestinians had been “shut in from all sides.”

Thus, Schiff concluded, “the prospect of being able to establish a viable state was fading right before their eyes. They were confronted with an intolerable set of options: to agree to the spreading occupation . . . or to set up wretched Bantustans, or to launch an uprising.”

As both the Palestinians and Israeli political analysts began to draw up detailed maps, it became evident not only that Gaza and the West Bank would be divided by the State of Israel, but that each of those two areas would in turn be divided into enclaves by the Israeli settlements, highways, and military positions, the links between which “would always be at the mercies of Israel, the Israel Defense Forces and the settlers.”

With little or no control over its water resources, with no independently controlled border access to neighboring countries, and with even its internal freedom of movement and commerce subject to continued Israeli closures, the already impoverished Palestinian state would be economically completely dependent on—and vulnerable to—Israel.

Staggeringly difficult to understand why they didn't jump with joy at the 'generous' deal.

 

[Ninja'd]

I guess this story counts.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/21/middleeast/israel-palestinians-west-bank-shooting/index.html

Jerusalem (CNN)Israeli soldiers shot and killed a Palestinian teenager early Tuesday in the West Bank, mistakenly believing he was involved in an earlier stone-throwing incident, the Israel Defense Forces said.

Mahmoud Raafat Badran, 15, was on his way home from a swimming pool when the car he was traveling in came under Israeli military fire, Abdul Kareem Qassem, the head of the Beit Ur al-Tahta village council, told CNN.

The boy lived in Beit Ur al-Tahta and had been to a pool in the neighboring village of Tira, both west of Ramallah in the West Bank.
Six other Palestinians in the car were injured, including two who remain in serious condition from gunshot wounds, Qassem said.

IDF soldiers were responding to an earlier incident near the village after stones and Molotov cocktails had been thrown close to a road that links Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and cuts through the West Bank. Three civilians were injured, the IDF said, including tourists from Britain and Belgium.

 

[netstrider]

This is how you deal with riots.

[video=youtube;sbFSVh1mmiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbFSVh1mmiw[/video]

 

[falcon786]

I guess this story counts.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/21/middleeast/israel-palestinians-west-bank-shooting/index.html

Israel was just exercising it's right to defend itself as usual.

 

[Solarion]

This is how you deal with riots.

[video=youtube;sbFSVh1mmiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbFSVh1mmiw[/video]

Looks good...until the petrol bombs start raining down. Then you see training go right out the window as the police start pissing themselves.