Online gambling in SA

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mancombseepgood

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Sorry to bring this up again, but i got a call from Piggs Peak today to confirm my details... i basically told them that there was no point as I have quit using their site after reading this article:
http://www.ioltechnology.co.za/article_page.php?iArticleId=3567877

They pointed out that I will never be fined, but i can't afford to take this chance and pointed out that if it did happen, I don't think Piggs Peak would come to my rescue... not to mention that I dont have the resources (esp. time) to spend in court.

I would really like to hear from people in the know - Piggs Peak employees, SA Gambling and Betting board employees, etc.
So... if there are any on this site, or if anyone knows any, please ask them to comment!

Since PP still advertise on SA sites (bidorbuy.co.za, etc) I think it is pretty significant.
 
PiesangTee said:
Sorry to bring this up again, but i got a call from Piggs Peak today to confirm my details... i basically told them that there was no point as I have quit using their site after reading this article:
http://www.ioltechnology.co.za/article_page.php?iArticleId=3567877

They pointed out that I will never be fined, but i can't afford to take this chance and pointed out that if it did happen, I don't think Piggs Peak would come to my rescue... not to mention that I dont have the resources (esp. time) to spend in court.

I would really like to hear from people in the know - Piggs Peak employees, SA Gambling and Betting board employees, etc.
So... if there are any on this site, or if anyone knows any, please ask them to comment!

Since PP still advertise on SA sites (bidorbuy.co.za, etc) I think it is pretty significant.
Click to expand...

AFAIK this is still in Court procedings currently there is nothing the Government can do to us gamblers... Then again I've been wrong before.
 
According to that IOL article, it's cut and dried... I believe it isn't, but I would really like to hear from people who know.
 
Hi Piesangtee

I have been reading on these articles and empty threats from the gambling board for a while now. This is just a personal opinion but here it goes. IMO there is nothing ilegal about playing online, not at the moment anyway. Piggs still has a appeal pending and even then the ruling should not effect the players.

Further you need to take note that it was the Piggs Peak team that took this matter to court not the NGB! Further more the IOL article is complete nonsense and typical misinformation provided for publicity. If you read through it carefully you will not that the court judgement was mainly about operators.

In his ruling, Judge Hartzenberg noted: "In terms of section 15(1) of the National Act, nobody is allowed to advertise or promote any gambling activity in the Republic which is unlawful in terms of that act or applicable provincial law, and in terms of section 71(1) of the Gauteng act, nobody is allowed to advertise or disseminate any information relating to gambling in Gauteng in respect of which no licence was issued."
Click to expand...

This was about advertising. They are enforcing a advertising law in terms of the "landbased casinos" onto Piggs Peak, NOT THE PLAYERS! The SA law does not make provision for online gambling at this time. But there is a bill on it's way so this will change soon.

I also believe that the NGB is going overboard with their warnings. I am sure they are aware that the current gambling laws has no jurisdiction over the internet that is why they are making changes to the laws, but still they are acting like everything is in place making online gambling illegal. The Eastern Cape Gambling Board has been at it for years that it is ilegal in the EC to gamble online. This off course is absolute nonsense as we are talking internet here, NOT LANDBASED. They have NO jurisdiction in terms of online gambling imo. because the national laws do not make provision for online gambling. Besides, you are gambling at a legal casino that is licensed in Swaziland, and that is where the gambling is taking place, I do not understand the argument that people have about this! :mad:
 
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Thats great - thanks Chatmaster - that's about the most sense anyone has made of this issue to date... I think I will feel better playing around with PP again. What i like is the ability to put the ante as low as 25c a time on almost anything... tends to prolong the fun :)
 
Look, I am open on arguments about this issue, and I actually hope other people will get in on it so maybe we can have a nice flyer debate going. We recently discussed this topic in depth on Casinomeister and several other forums, but I am sure I have a pretty strong argument.
 
Chatmaster said:
Look, I am open on arguments about this issue, and I actually hope other people will get in on it so maybe we can have a nice flyer debate going. We recently discussed this topic in depth on Casinomeister and several other forums, but I am sure I have a pretty strong argument.
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I don't want to Argue

I want to play poker .... ;)
 
Chatmaster said:
Hi Piesangtee
They have NO jurisdiction in terms of online gambling imo. because the national laws do not make provision for online gambling. Besides, you are gambling at a legal casino that is licensed in Swaziland, and that is where the gambling is taking place, I do not understand the argument that people have about this! :mad:
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True, but be careful where that casino is outside of the SADC. Then you may find yourself in contravention of Exchange Control Regulations.

Although we have seen Excon being relaxed more and more each year, online gambling (where the actual casino is outside the SADC), can be viewed as taking money out of the country illegally (i.e. outside of your normal R2m investment allowance).

This would be similar to Excon prohibiting SA residents to participate in foreign lotto's (as it is also not seen as an "investment" )

The best way to test this is probably to ask your bank to apply to the SARB's Excon Dept for foreign currency to use in an online casino (who's operations are outside the SADC). :D ...you might get funny looks
 
PiesangTee said:
Sorry to bring this up again, but i got a call from Piggs Peak today to confirm my details... i basically told them that there was no point as I have quit using their site after reading this article:
http://www.ioltechnology.co.za/article_page.php?iArticleId=3567877

They pointed out that I will never be fined, but i can't afford to take this chance and pointed out that if it did happen, I don't think Piggs Peak would come to my rescue... not to mention that I dont have the resources (esp. time) to spend in court.

I would really like to hear from people in the know - Piggs Peak employees, SA Gambling and Betting board employees, etc.
So... if there are any on this site, or if anyone knows any, please ask them to comment!

Since PP still advertise on SA sites (bidorbuy.co.za, etc) I think it is pretty significant.
Click to expand...
Just signed up with them. Apparently you get R100 to start with. Are there small tables with low blinds where one can start and work one's way up?
 
Kompete said:
True, but be careful where that casino is outside of the SADC. Then you may find yourself in contravention of Exchange Control Regulations.
Click to expand...

Well Swaziland falls within the Rand monetary area. Doesn't that make a huge difference? Also I doubt that South Africa want to make themselves guilty of contravening the WTO trade agreement by prohibiting Piggs to take SA players...
 
While I never managed to play the poker, I say that pigs peak is hectically rigged. It has to be or every card counting wannabe would sit with his excel spread sheet doin the odds. Not to mention I got 22 reds on roulette in a row, to bad I was betting on black. But best of all when I played the practice mode I made 2 bar twice :sick: **** piggs peak they are scumm
 
Hey Guys

This is very interesting as I have been contacted by a friend of mine who's the marketing dude for http://www.worldpokertour.com/

Knowing I'm involved in affiliate marketing here in SA a wanted me to join and promote their product here in SA as they have been given the Go-Ahead here in SA. Online Gambling has been kicked pretty sersiously in the States and these guys are all now looking at the South African market.

Not sure if anyone has noticed on eTV, after the late movie they are now airing the World Poker Tour Series (Think from 2005) to build interest. Party Poker bought the license to the series for south africa and you can see their branding on the tables and short ads between.

My buddy rekons that South Africa is a white area meaning they are allowed to opperate but the advertising thing I'm not 100%. When it comes to online I imagine it would be extremely difficult to regulate as most the servers are in the states. Mine are there too with static banners with now geotargeting in place. So advertising will be tough to kill, they would have to go after the opperates - and they're not!

So from my view point the people involve at the Gambling and Betting Board just want a bigger bite of the pie and trying to make trouble. This is why they were kicked out of the states. SA doesn't have the firm grasp on the net as the States does. It will takes years before something actually happens.
 
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Just Ad Words said:
Hey Guys

This is very interesting as I have been contacted by a friend of mine who's the marketing dude for http://www.worldpokertour.com/

Knowing I'm involved in affiliate marketing here in SA a wanted me to join and promote their product here in SA as they have been given the Go-Ahead here in SA. Online Gambling has been kicked pretty sersiously in the States and these guys are all now looking at the South African market.

Not sure if anyone has noticed on eTV, after the late movie they are now airing the World Poker Tour Series (Think from 2005) to build interest. Party Poker bought the license to the series for south africa and you can see their branding on the tables and short ads between.

My buddy rekons that South Africa is a white area meaning they are allowed to opperate but the advertising thing I'm not 100%. When it comes to online I imagine it would be extremely difficult to regulate as most the servers are in the states. Mine are there too with static banners with now geotargeting in place. So advertising will be tough to kill, they would have to go after the opperates - and they're not!

So from my view point the people involve at the Gambling and Betting Board just want a bigger bite of the pie and trying to make trouble. This is why they were kicked out of the states. SA doesn't have the firm grasp on the net as the States does. It will takes years before something actually happens.
Click to expand...

Nice Site... Thanx M8. You can also view this one
www.allafricapoker.tv
 
Just chatted to him quickly and this was his response to the thread:

"Story is simple... piggs peak are and always have been illegal, they're using a swazi land based casino license argument claiming it gives them legitimacy to run online gaming sites in SA...h**** b*****z not only convinced himself and his staff that he was legit but also made more than a hundred million rand in the process... which is a **** sight more than his poxy little piece of crap casino in piggs peak ever did... notwithstanding the above.. he has ****all license there and the government has now said so in big bold print"

Does this it up?
 
That's exactly what I heard from a guy I met on a plane who works for East Cape Gambling and Betting Board in EL... it has always been illegal... they told me that with FICA, your bank a/c is an open book and they get red flags when deposits come from casino sources... i.e winnings. He was certainly convinced from where I stood. Although I understood that the Eastern Cape was one province where it was illegal to gamble online and didn't get an answer about the other provinces... not sure how that works since my IP is tied to the western cape.
 
Just Ad Words said:
piggs peak are and always have been illegal, they're using a swazi land based casino license argument claiming it gives them legitimacy to run online gaming sites in SA...
Click to expand...

If there is one thing I hate it is posts that has no facts supporting statements like this.

Please supply me with a valid link to the legislation outlawing online gambling at a licensed casino.

Piggs has a gambling license in Swaziland, which falls within the Rand monetary area. The argument that has been and still is an issue is where does the gambling act take place! Does it take place in Swaziland or does it take place at your PC at home. Well the thing is, if the server goes down you cannot play. You cannot even open the software!

The issue is not whether or not Piggs Peak are ilegal, it is government frustrated because they do not getting a cut. The frustration of the fact that they cannot do anything about Piggs at this point of time. I would also like to see how the Eastern Cape will convict anybody in a court of law for gambling online. They can't because they know their provincial laws are ill equipped.

I will wait for the new online gambling laws to be passed and then it will be a complete different ballgame.
 
The South African Gambling Act is drafted in such a way that online gambling is illegal even if you are technically speakig gambling on a websiet based in a country where it is legal. The illegal is in terms of the Act, the physicla act of sitting in front of your PC and engaging in what is defined as an interactive game. Look at the definition of "interactive game" in the act....coincidentally, I was working in Parlaiment at the time when they debated certain amendments to the Act. They specifically mentioned that is was illegal.

On another note, in the abovementioned consultations I also heard some representatives telling Parliamnet how the casinos had ABSOLUTELY wrecked the province. The meeting, amongst other things, involved the allocation of quota's of slot and limited payout machines. while most of the provices substantiated why the needed more.....two provinces cursed the day gambling was ever declared legal ( but regualted) and said that if they could, they would give some of the allocated quota away!!!!

The present act was passed into law on 12 August 2004. At that point the legislature recognised that interactive gambling was a growing field and therefore game themselves two years frmo that date to enact legislation dealing iwht online gambling..its not been done.

However, IMO there is little to no risk in online POKER playing. The State is too lazy to do anythign bout it. They will only do something bout it if they are preassured by the Bricksn Mortar casinos. This wont happen because hte Bricks n Mortar guys are not interested in poker. The house makes only a small rake on poker tables while blackjack and Roulette are big money spinners!! Casino's get a license for a specific number of tables in the house. If you get say fifty tables then you will not waste any of poker tables where your rake is 5% of the pot while with a blackjack table you will have chumps dumping pockets at a time.
 
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IMO if South Africa is going to ignore net neutrality (www.savetheinternet.com) and become more and more like China and other restricted countries (where democracy has no say) I will definitely go out of my way to defy the laws of this country.

a) Get an offshore account including a postal address
b) Sign up and play to your hearts content

If they stop trying to enforce and police white collar crime in this country (where corruption plays a large role) and get the criminals off the street first, you'll have a much safer environment, bigger and healthier work force and then enough time to go after the white collar crime.
 
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