Online shops that make you pay to return defective items thread

It's generally because the cost to you is subsidized, while you returning something can't be subsidized. I'll use myself as an example:

  • You buy a cooler
  • Courier to you is R 165, but you get charged R 119
  • The difference of R 46 comes out of margin on the cooler
  • You return the cooler, still sealed, because you realized you bought a 420mm AIO and while stripping your PC you realized your case only supports up to 280mm
  • There is no margin to cover the R 46 as you're being refunded for the cooler
  • You get charged R 165 for the return, which is still a net loss on the sale of R 46


You have to be massive to get better rates. My bill is a quite far into the 5-digit figures each month, and I pay the same as you would sending a single parcel every few months.


No, it doesn't. The only time courier costs me less than you pay is when it's a local flyer bag. Those extra R 20s that local small orders pay get "used" to cover return fees. Using the above example, if your cooler dies within 6 months, there's a further R 165 x 2 courier fees I have to cover - there isn't a cooler with margin high enough to cover the R 330, and it has eaten all margin from the original sale AND SOME.

I ran the numbers about a year ago, and courier fees balance out almost perfectly, with the final figure being a net loss of below 0.5% at the time.


It's a tough one to work out - would you be happy paying "only" 10% less for a cooler that has been opened and installed, even if never powered on? You're going to need to buy new thermal paste as well, as the cooler was installed and the original paste was wiped off (or the store has to chuck in a new tube at their cost).

Distributors almost never accept opened returns, so the store could be sitting with it for weeks/months/years until it gets sold as open box. When distributors DO accept open returns, they normally go all-in with the handling fee (it can greatly exceed 25% - there's no ceiling as you'd find under the CPA when it's B2B).

I've completely written off a number of returned items because they weren't popular items and hadn't sold after 6+ months. That's money being written off through no fault of mine other than accepting returns that, from a CPA perspective, didn't need to be accepted. I try to view returns from a consumer's point of view as much as possible, as I'm also a consumer, but sometimes it's just not feasible or possible.


No sies. Those may be denied outright for hygienic reasons.


Larger companies often work on billing cycles, it can be a life or death situation and all they can do is schedule a payment to go off with the next cycle.


Delivery cost only - not return cost. Return isn't on you.


They make a sickening amount of margin. They more often than not make around 9% more margin than anyone else by negotiating bulk deals, and then ON TOP OF THAT get rebates of 5-8%. Where a store the size of almost everyone you mentioned in post 9 is making 5%, Takealot and Amazon are making 15-25% (accounting for rebates) while selling at the same price.

I think that covers everything :)
Always appreciate your responses and input. It is really nice having someone giving some perspective. Regarding the "restock" fee.
One would think there is by now a system where packaging is standardised , for after it has been inspected, it can be sealed again. Some standard seal system.

Hmmm...

Wait let me work on this one..

/claude

"I am an entrepreneur. Worlds most successful business man..... "
 
Always appreciate your responses and input. It is really nice having someone giving some perspective. Regarding the "restock" fee.
One would think there is by now a system where packaging is standardised , for after it has been inspected, it can be sealed again. Some standard seal system.

Hmmm...

Wait let me work on this one..

/claude

"I am an entrepreneur. Worlds most successful business man..... "
Imagine the amount of fraud that would allow... Hell, I can swap a Core Ultra 9 285K with a Celeron G6900 and deny the return because it's not what was purchased, never mind selling used stock as new.
 
I work for a company doing about 50k+ orders a month and my average courier fee ranges from R55 to R70 depending on weight.

With recent fuel prices we been hit with fuel surcharges and our average delivery is now costing R95 to R105

We cover the costs should your item be faulty/wrong item etc. We only charge R69 for shipping so when you get free shipping we taking a R+-40 hit per order .

Our courier bill has gone through the roof, we were trialing free returns now before all this started happening and it cost us a small fortune, we were forced to pull it, its not viable to do free returns.
 
I work for a company doing about 50k+ orders a month and my average courier fee ranges from R55 to R70 depending on weight.
At R70 - your courier bill is R3.5Mil? Courier Guy is rolling in it!
 
Also goes to show how the post office really fcked up
 
At R70 - your courier bill is R3.5Mil? Courier Guy is rolling in it!
We do not use Courier Guy. The fee i also quoted is base fee. You then get township surcharges, embassey charges, outlying areas. The rate i mentioned was like "city center".

I can't give details out but the number is higher sadly...
 
We do not use Courier Guy. The fee i also quoted is base fee. You then get township surcharges, embassey charges, outlying areas. The rate i mentioned was like "city center".

I can't give details out but the number is higher sadly...

Ya i hear you, that was just a rough calc. But goes to show its big money
 
They sent a courier, he picked it up and it appeared at their offices

I've spent over R400,000 at Wootware over the last 6 years.... the items I returned were never picked up, I had to sent them off by courier... and on those orders they still charge you delivery at checkout, I mean WTF. Meanwhile TakeAlot or Amazon and most companies have free delivery over X amount.

Oh and if you pay by credit card you get charged more! :ROFL:
 
Who do you use? R165 to ship a cooler sounds too high. I’ll take a guess and say you have an account with TCG?
Aranova. It's not entirely about price, it's about service. Courier gets to a supplier after they closed at 4:30pm for something that was supposed to be overnight? They'll do a same-day the next day without me having to request it, and without charging extra. I screwed up badly and forgot to book something until 15:00 (long after cut-off)? I have the owner's number, it's a phone call (normally answered within a few rings) to have the driver sent back to my area. Unexpectedly large bill for something, check the captured dimensions, and they're far off the mark? It's corrected almost before the call is over.

Will FastWay, DHL, CourierIT, Rhenus Express, Primetime Express, Aramex, etc do the same? I've tried them all.

I wouldn't touch TCG again if they were the last courier service in SA - I'd rather crawl backwards through broken glass to hand-deliver orders. At least the blood on my hands and knees will show I did everything I could to get the parcel delivered, which is more than I can say about a late delivery with TCG. While issues with Aranova are sorted in 30 minutes or less, I have unresolved issues from YEARS ago with TCG.

Based on what size dataset? They crashed and burned spectacularly for me.

  • Collections not done because "nobody at premises" (at a distributor with approximately 50 people on site?!)
  • Deliveries not done because "nobody at premises and no answer on phone" although the recipient has been at the premises all day and is happy to share video footage (and then when asking TCG for GPS/call logs, the phone was ALWAYS problematic and reset that very morning)
  • Billing issues - the worst was almost R 300 for a mousepad to CPT because there was something stuck to the box which gave incorrect readings for the dimensions with their laser scanner, but they won't credit the difference
  • Impossible to get hold of anyone other than the person who answers the phone. This happened so frequently it got to the point that I looked up the directors and grabbed their details from RocketReach to try them directly
  • Split deliveries on a single waybill - one part of the delivery goes to the wrong province
  • Parcel went with wrong van, will attempt delivery a day late (I had this TODAY with a personal delivery - I didn't choose the courier - where a parcel went with the wrong driver yesterday)
  • Parcel missing for a day or two, until you say you want to make an insurance claim and then it's found within 5 minutes
  • I have hard evidence ranging from phone calls to video footage at distributors that their drivers lie, but if you're lucky enough to get hold of a area/regional manager, they take the driver's side and make you out to be the liar
  • I have several videos of collections being done for multiple distributors (spanning more than one driver), with all parcels being put onto a single pile while the driver fills out waybills and then tries to remember what's what
None of the above are once-off issues, with some being as regular as 1-2x per month.

I was on a cash account with a R-5k limit. It was done because of the volume of deliveries I was doing. 1 Jan 2024, account on hold. Mkay, after being closed two weeks, I'm probably past the 14 days on the oldest invoices. Pay most of it, still on hold.

Call and speak to about a dozen people in the accounts dept who all say "your limit has always been zero." I have them pull up statements for the last year to prove them wrong, they all tell me they can see it but it wasn't possible, I must have been paying and had a positive balance. I tell them LOOK at my balance, it hasn't been better than R -300 for the last year. They disagree...

Finally, several DAYS later, they said they sent emails in November and December 2023. I told them please check the mailing list because I DID NOT RECEIVE ANYTHING. They say I did receive it. I tell them I didn't (I've checked spam, logged into webmail to check that nothing has been discarded/marked as junk along the way, etc). They say they have confirmation I RECEIVED it, not just that they sent it. Keep in mind that mail is done through a ticketing system, so Outlook's "read receipts" are completely ignored.

I ask them to FORWARD the mail to me. They forward one from nearly a year prior (not November/December 2023), which was an internal mail sent to TCG staff only.

----

The final straw was a same-day delivery that they failed to collect from a distributor no less than five times (morning and afternoon for two consecutive days, morning only of the third day). The reason given was "not invoiced." Here's the thing - I can't arrange courier collection UNTIL it has been invoiced, as the invoice number is the reference for collection. I had already received the invoice when making the booking. I arranged another courier, who collected just after 3pm and delivered to me before COB that same day.

There are several other issues, such as the train-wreck which was the migration from Parcel Perfect to Ship Logic (which also resulted in all address book entries being removed and irretrievable without warning), or that no amount of begging and pleading will get them to check their accounts other than morning and afternoon, so if you get too close to your limit and top-up you're going to have a problem until the next time they check their accounts.

Over the years they've been quick to say I must keep my 5-figure monthly spend with them when I ask if I should move to another courier, but always radio silent when I ask for a resolution. My favourite reply is "we will escalate to higher management" followed by it being the end of the story.

This is based on 8 years of using them to arrange (I'd estimate) 30,000 deliveries, and service has continued to deteriorate year on year.

I have since moved to another courier with which I have had one major issue in the last 10 months, but was resolved in a single 10 minute phone call (of which more than half was apologizing to me and an offer to call the customer to explain repeated several times).
 
Aranova. It's not entirely about price, it's about service. Courier gets to a supplier after they closed at 4:30pm for something that was supposed to be overnight? They'll do a same-day the next day without me having to request it, and without charging extra. I screwed up badly and forgot to book something until 15:00 (long after cut-off)? I have the owner's number, it's a phone call (normally answered within a few rings) to have the driver sent back to my area. Unexpectedly large bill for something, check the captured dimensions, and they're far off the mark? It's corrected almost before the call is over.

Will FastWay, DHL, CourierIT, Rhenus Express, Primetime Express, Aramex, etc do the same? I've tried them all.

I wouldn't touch TCG again if they were the last courier service in SA - I'd rather crawl backwards through broken glass to hand-deliver orders. At least the blood on my hands and knees will show I did everything I could to get the parcel delivered, which is more than I can say about a late delivery with TCG. While issues with Aranova are sorted in 30 minutes or less, I have unresolved issues from YEARS ago with TCG.


We use a "Tech" company who handles our shipping but we have a blend of Aramex, DPD, CourierIT and RAM at the moment.

All are toss up's with what service you going to get, in certain areas its piss poor and other not. The nice thing with this company we using now is when customer experiencer goes down the load from that courier gets pulled in that area and a new courier gets the loads.

Where i personally stay i have been very friendly to the DPD/CourierIT/RAM guys and they will always Whatsapp or call asking if i am home etc. A cold coldrink on a hot day or just a little something now and then and my courier experience has been really good.

But yea in general courier services in this country is shocking... We got a quote to pick up a truck load of products and they quoted us +-R18,000 . We went to another third party we use and they quoted us R6k because it was a short trip... The 18k guys went and picked up even though we rejected their quote and then expected us to pay the R18k and worst thing was they only picked up HALF the order...

At my previous company we used DSV and EMIT and they were like F tier... both so bad
 
amazon.com does do this, although not directly. Bought an Asus chromebook from them which had a shot battery, the cost to send it back was much higher than they charged me to import so I lost about R1000 on the overall transaction.
 
amazon.com does do this, although not directly. Bought an Asus chromebook from them which had a shot battery, the cost to send it back was much higher than they charged me to import so I lost about R1000 on the overall transaction.
Don't they usually refund it though if it is under warranty ?
1000107539.jpg
 
I think, if delivery is outside of the stores jurisdiction, then its the same as if I walked into a shop and bought something, you need to get it back. The difference is that Amazon and Takealot have their own fleets of courier and network of drop-offs etc.

I think it sucks but I also think some folks ( I think it was Gee-wiz ) , gave me bit of extra credit/discount because a item was faulty.

Re-stocking because of a unwanted item, nah that's on the consumer. You want to send something back because you changed your mind and now the business needs to sell as open box and take a knock? Not fair. As a customer, would you want something that's been opened by someone else?
 
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