Only one SA tribe left that won't play nice

[protzkrog]

what AA is doing, is not levelling the playing field, but giving the black person a adrenalin injection and tying the feet of the white person together...

contrary to what the constitution says, all races are not equal in this country...

 

[orin76]

I just do not understand what some whites feel should be done to remedy the harmful effects of aparthied.

That's where I get stuck as well. I agree that AA/BEE etc are unfair to a lot of South Africans, but I can't think of anything better that will make a significant impact in less than 50-100 years.

 

[protzkrog]

I just do not understand what some whites feel should be done to remedy the harmful effects of aparthied.

not making the same mistakes the apartheid government did

giving black persons a good education, rather than forcing companies to hire unqualified people just because they are black

 

[orin76]

giving black persons a good education, rather than forcing companies to hire unqualified people just because they are black

With the exception of government institutions, I really don't think this is widespread. I've seen very few cases personally. I've seen mediocre employees get promoted above better employess, but that was more about political/social connections.

 

[Bageloo]

not making the same mistakes the apartheid government did

giving black persons a good education, rather than forcing companies to hire unqualified people just because they are black

This rarely happens in reality. So far the majority of AA beneficiaries are those who had a good education and experience. Look at how they hop from one job to the next. Their skills are in great demand due to the short supply.

 

[Nod]

This rarely happens in reality. So far the majority of AA beneficiaries are those who had a good education and experience. Look at how they hop from one job to the next. Their skills are in great demand due to the short supply.

Hopping from one job to another, does not equate to being good at your job.

I've just heard that universities don't give out the actual marks when inquired by an employer, only passed or not passed. So somebody might have the paper, but you can't judge if that person is really the best.

If I do get into a position of doing interviews, I will require a written test and a practical to be completed, before taking on any person.

 

[McSack]

That's where I get stuck as well. I agree that AA/BEE etc are unfair to a lot of South Africans, but I can't think of anything better that will make a significant impact in less than 50-100 years.

I don't think the problem lies with AA / BEE as a concept. Most whites could probably say they agree that the “wrongs of the past” need to be addressed and righted … and that AA is probably necessary … blah blah blah. The problem is the method of application. Who is actually benefiting out of this other that the same old suspects every time? What's the point of endlessly forcing the issue when you do very little to improve the lot of the truly underprivileged? When are people other than ruling party cronies going to get a bite of the pie so we can finally move on? So a few more people now have tiny houses to live in and we can all go to movies together, but have the lives of the previously disadvantaged (actually still disadvantaged) really been improved? Maybe we should ask a couple of people living on the slopes of Hout Bay, Diepsloot or the flats of Khayalitsha
Can anyone honestly say that education in SA has improved in the last 13 years (for anyone of any race group)? Are kids finishing matric the end of this year better off educationally than they would have been 13 years ago? Are their prospects of further education better now?
... I think not.
I’m prepared to put my c$%ck on a block here and say that if as much money and effort had been put into education since ’94 as has been wasted on other k@k like arms deals, name changes and freedom walls, we’d be well on our way to not having to worry about AA/BEE. How do you have education officials(amongst others) driving around in Range Rovers & X5’s, when there are hundreds of schools around the country that are falling apart at the seams?

Anyways, that’s my rant for the day

 

[Bageloo]

Hopping from one job to another, does not equate to being good at your job.

By that I did not mean that they have superior skills. I meant that they are fewer blacks with the skills and qualifications compared to the demand for blacks. The few that are suitable qualified tend to move around looking for the best paying job because most companies prefer ready made blacks. My point was that companies rarely hire unskilled/unqualified blacks.

 

[protzkrog]

most companies prefer ready made blacks.

heheh, sounds funny as if its an item you can buy in a shop, hehheh

 

[Nod]

By that I did not mean that they have superior skills. I meant that they are fewer blacks with the skills and qualifications compared to the demand for blacks. The few that are suitable qualified tend to move around looking for the best paying job because most companies prefer ready made blacks. My point was that companies rarely hire unskilled/unqualified blacks.

And thats the whole problem. They demand better salaries, but can't necessarily do the work that would justify that high salary. A company have to look at what the job is worth, how much money can they ask for that persons knowledge. You can contract a guy out to a customer at a premium, because of what he is costing you, but if he can't do the work that is demanded by the customer, then he is useless, and will probably only loose you the contract.

 

[Rooinek]

Hopping from one job to another, does not equate to being good at your job.

I've just heard that universities don't give out the actual marks when inquired by an employer, only passed or not passed. So somebody might have the paper, but you can't judge if that person is really the best.

If I do get into a position of doing interviews, I will require a written test and a practicle to be completed, before taking on any person.

Nod: You have been lied to as Universities give transcripts. One of my key activities in the financial institution that I work for is to hire member's of my team. We demand a transcript which shows the courses taken and marks attained. Actually, most graduates just provide the transcript anyway. As such we hire an individual on the basis of their academic achievements, and of course fit (we do all those Myers Briggs personality and character tests).

I have noticed a resurgence of many capable and quite assertive black candidates who tend to job hop not because they are not up to scratch but because they find it easier to leave than face work discrimination. This is usually done with the believe that have skills that can guarantee them a job elsewhere.

 

[Bageloo]

And thats the whole problem. They demand better salaries, but can't necessarily do the work that would justify that high salary. A company have to look at what the job is worth, how much money can they ask for that persons knowledge.

That goes back to my statement again. Companies only want to hire blacks who already have the skills even at higher costs when it would be cheaper to develop new skills.

 

[McSack]

That goes back to my statement again. Companies only want to hire blacks who already have the skills even at higher costs when it would be cheaper to develop new skills.

"Companies only want to hire anyone who already has the skills even at higher costs when it would be cheaper to develop new skills"


skills development costa plenty with no gaurantees that the candidate is going to work out

 

[dlk001]

"Companies only want to hire anyone who already has the skills even at higher costs when it would be cheaper to develop new skills"


skills development costa plenty with no gaurantees that the candidate is going to work out

Its a tough one indeed. I think one has to find a balance between developing skills and paying top notch for "already skilled". In some fields, either way, there is no guarantees.

 

[Bageloo]

My comapny has everyone disillissioned and demotivated because they are fond of bringing in people from outside when there's plenty of talent within the department.

 

[Skeptik]

I have noticed a resurgence of many capable and quite assertive black candidates who tend to job hop not because they are not up to scratch but because they find it easier to leave than face work discrimination. This is usually done with the believe that have skills that can guarantee them a job elsewhere.

They job hop because they know they are in demand and can increase salary at each hop.
Many columnists have suggested that their expectations are too high and also leave after a short time to get the nice car and perqs which they imagine is owed to the.

 

[diabolus]

My point was that companies rarely hire unskilled/unqualified blacks.

True, they simply don't hire ANYONE AT ALL. The govt. has vacancies all over the place which they refuse to fill because they can't find a black person. THAT is where the paw-paw hits the fan with AA :

1. company x needs to do business.
2. company x needs to be BEE qualified to win a contract.
3. company x looses black employees [job hopping]
4. do company x now appoint the next qualified person? NO, company x will wait till they find a >>black<< qualified replacement....
5. meantime , white employee do 2 people's work
6. company x starts getting used to this convenient and cheap setup and stops looking.
7. no one wins, not black or white.
8. white burns out and quits
9. company is screwed and starts outsourcing to white guys who are 3 times more expensive
10. company are unable to expand.

It is unreasonable to expect blacks to have turned the corner after just 13 years especially since AA/BEE is not as ruthless as the apartheid laws were.

Of course, but it is reasonable to expect that blacks at least CREATE opportunities instead of "replacing" them. Re-open the colleges that were closed for "Apartheid reasons", build new universities, build new schools, build new airports ...let blacks run it all. Instead the ANC is merely renaming,rehashing and replacing the white owned and created "opportunities".

Simple example:

A. Company X -expands- by appointing new black employees. They now have 10 blacks and 20 whites. They still get placed under extreme pressure on the BEE scorecard [if not failing miserably].

vs.

B. Company Y -retrench- 10 white employees and appoint 10 blacks. They now have 10 whites and 10 blacks...they fare significantly better on the BEE scorecard.

Which one of the above do you think are happening?

Is it any wonder that unemployment is probably getting WORSE ? Now no one is getting employed and those that are, are working 2+ jobs. The qualified black guys probably are doing 38 jobs .....aka SAA CEO

 

[Angelo]

Die boere kry hulle De la Rey

 

[Skeptik]

Nod: You have been lied to as Universities give transcripts. One of my key activities in the financial institution that I work for is to hire member's of my team. We demand a transcript which shows the courses taken and marks attained. Actually, most graduates just provide the transcript anyway. As such we hire an individual on the basis of their academic achievements, and of course fit (we do all those Myers Briggs personality and character tests).

I have noticed a resurgence of many capable and quite assertive black candidates who tend to job hop not because they are not up to scratch but because they find it easier to leave than face work discrimination. This is usually done with the believe that have skills that can guarantee them a job elsewhere.

I've never heard of a financial institution in Europe asking for course transcripts. They do write to the university sometimes, especially if you don't provide a copy of your degree cert.

Maybe they do it in SA to curb forgeries.

 

[supersunbird]

Maybe the "tribe" this article refers to will play nice if they arent made out as scapegoats for every problem.