Oscar Pistorius: The Appeal

I believe he will be convicted of murder and sent back to a jail cell as opposed to his uncle's mansion.

A responsible judge will realise the implications of this terrible verdict by judge Masipa (appropriate name in this instance, direct translation is "Judge Sh..T".

How many abusive partners will now only have to wait for their significant others to go to the bathroom at night to kill them without having to worry about being accountable for murder? Serve 10 months and be put under house arrest for the murder of another human being is a joke.

His lawyer is also scum for trying to get a killer a light sentence when everyone knows he deliberately murdered her that night.
 
Cloudster said:
His lawyer is also scum for trying to get a killer a light sentence when everyone knows he deliberately murdered her that night.
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Lets be honest defense attorneys and advocates are not there to be moral they are there for the kill and the money.
I am sure he sleeps just fine knowing how much money he makes.
 
marine1 said:
Well the Judge in the SCA disagreed.
He said it doesnt matter who was behind the door, point is OP should have foreseen death of he victim whoever it could be and it doesnt matter if it was Reeva or the Pope.
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Dolus eventualis is not about what OP should have foreseen. It's about what he did foresee. That's a question of fact, not law.
 
Roids/coke/booze and an insecure manchild who has always gotten his way.

Volatile situation right there and there are plenty of other incidents that came up in the case which clearly illustrate this volatility.

I don't believe we have seen justice here and I hope we do in the end.

What is perhaps the cruelest thing at this stage is that OP is the only person alive today who knows the truth about that happened to that girl and he won't give her parents the simple truth of it so that they can start to try and live with that.
 
marine1 said:
.
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From my link which you obviously did not read:
Related Terms: Dolus Directus, Gross Negligence

In S. v Rebede, Justice Musi and Murray of the Free State High Court, Bloemfontein (South Africa) wrote:

"Intent can occur in three forms: dolus directus, dolus indirectus and dolus eventualis.

"Intent in the form of dolus eventualis or legal intention, which is present when the perpetrator objectively foresees the possibility of his act causing death and persists regardless of the consequences, suffices to find someone guilty of murder.

"Dolus directus, on the other hand, known as intention in its ordinary grammatical sense, is present when the accused’s aim and object is to bring about the unlawful consequence, even should the chance of its resulting be small."

The South African Court of Appeal held that mens rea in the form of dolus eventualis is an elastic concept. It can range from bordering on negligence (culpa) on the one hand to dolus directus on the other. However, the test always remains whether the accused person subjectively foresaw the possibility of the death of the deceased and associated himself therewith.1

Dolus eventualis is sometimes said to be the criminal law equivalent to the tort concept of gross negligence.
REFERENCES:

S v Mienies [1978] 4 SA 560; text taken from and cited with approval in S v Luke and Others, [2012] ZAWCHC 9 - NOTE 1
S v Radebe, [2011] ZAFSHC 118
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Xarog said:
From my link which you obviously did not read:
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Did you actually read the definition?


The South African Court of Appeal held that mens rea in the form of dolus eventualis is an elastic concept. It can range from bordering on negligence (culpa) on the one hand to dolus directus on the other. However, the test always remains whether the accused person subjectively foresaw the possibility of the death of the deceased and associated himself therewith.1

Again, how do you fire 4 shots into a door with hollow point ammo, KNOWING someone is behind that door and there is no place to run or hide and then not be fully aware you are going to kill that someone????
Sorry but any other option is a load of crap
 
marine1 said:
Again, how do you fire 4 shots into a door with hollow point ammo, KNOWING someone is behind that door and there is no place to run or hide and then not be fully aware you are going to kill that someone????
Sorry but any other option is a load of crap
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Irrelevant. Even if Masipa is wrong, it is a determination of fact not law.

In other words, the SCA is not entitled to question Masipa's findings if she claims that OP did not meet the requirements of Dolus Eventualis if she says he wasn't able to appreciate the full extent of his actions at the time he pulled the trigger.
 
Xarog said:
It is a question of panicking. People who panic aren't always in a state of mind to appreciate the nature of their actions. They tend to behave on reflex desires which are unfinished emotional thoughts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic
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Then he should not have taken the time to go and get his gun, run like a hero to the bathroom and fire 4 shots into the closed door dont you think? All this while not once checking on Reeva who he says he thought was in the bed.
Sorry the guy murdered his chick, he knew what he was doing
 
marine1 said:
Then he should not have taken the time to go and get his gun, run like a hero to the bathroom and fire 4 shots into the closed door dont you think? All this while not once checking on Reeva who he says he thought was in the bed.
Sorry the guy murdered his chick, he knew what he was doing
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Marine, all of this is irrelevant now.

The SCA can't re-address the details of the case. They are there to see if the application of the law was correct. All of the above is irrelevant.
 
marine1 said:
Then he should not have taken the time to go and get his gun, run like a hero to the bathroom and fire 4 shots into the closed door dont you think? All this while not once checking on Reeva who he says he thought was in the bed.
Sorry the guy murdered his chick, he knew what he was doing
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Perhaps I can put you in the scene in a way you understand:

The same way that OP is obsessed about defending himself from home invaders is the same way you are obsessed with Muslims coming to attack you. Niether of you have the emotional maturity to admit to yourselves that you may possibly be wrong in your assessments. Like OP, if you were woken up in the middle of the night and genuinely believed that the noises you heard were Muslims coming to attack you, your flight or fight instincts would kick in. And we both know what kind of reaction you're emotionally prepared for wrt Muslims coming to attack you, don't we, Marine1?

And sadly, if you were to kill an innnocent person under those circumstances, the correct judgement would be culpable homicide, not murder.

Anxiety is faaaaaaar more insidious than most people ever care to realise.
 
marine1 said:
Again, how do you fire 4 shots into a door with hollow point ammo, /snip
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Im not siding with or against Oscar but he went to the gun range on a frequent basis .
you learn quick fire habits that become second nature (muscle memory) so the 4 shots could have been down to that .
 
pinball wizard said:
Sadly.

He obviously bribed the shrink he was ordered to see.
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No, not really. There's a lot of evidence in his behaviour before the shooting that lines up very neatly with such a diagnosis.
 
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