Patent Law

Dolby

Dolby

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Looking at the whole Apple vs Samsung lawsuit on designs etc - I started thinking a little more about ... and thinking maybe someone knows more that I do.

The whole lawsuit is over design - but a tablet consists of pretty much a screen and a small bevel. How on earth is one expected to differentiate one tablet from another?

Can one patent generic items like cellphones, LCD screens, tables, scissors etc?
Or is it specific within those categories - a special type of scissors?
 
You know, I fully understand that the current copyright situation is in dire need of revision, and probably Apple is overly vindictive in protecting its properties. But is it really possible to deny the extent to which Samsung has ripped off every successful Apple product? If Apple uses an icon, guaranteed Samsung will find an equivalent icon. If Apple uses a right swipe to unlock mechanism, Samsung will do the same. The Samsung lawyer couldn't even tell the Tab 10.1 apart from the iPad at a distance. At a certain point I feel Apple has the right to protect the innovations it created. The iPhone and iPad were solely responsible for an entire paradigm of touchscreen navigation.

For instance the Windows Phone 7 interface managed to produce a beautiful, intuitive touchscreen UI that managed to be completely differentiated from anything Apple. Why couldn't Samsung have exerted the same effort instead of just rushing to the labs following every Apple announcement?
 
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But here's my thing :

They're taking Samsung to court over the design and people mistaking them?

Wtf is going to walk into the store and come out with the wrong device?

Also - the device is basically a screen ... How else do you design a tablet? Its like patenting a window and saying everyones must look different ...

Crazymonkey : I was blocked when I initially went to the link, so I'll check it shortly. Thanks!
 
No they're taking them to court because Samsung slavishly copies their design ideas time and time again across their smartphones and tablets. Look at the juxtaposition of their stock icons on the page crazymonkey posted. It couldn't be more obvious. Why couldn't they have come up with a different metaphor for settings than a gear? Or a white phone on a green background? Or a CD with musical notes for music? Without punitive legislation there's also no reason for manufacturers like Samsung to ever innovate - so in one sense it can be argued that Apple's patent lawsuits are forcing innovation by prohibiting imitation.
 
cerebus said:
No they're taking them to court because Samsung slavishly copies their design ideas time and time again across their smartphones and tablets. Look at the juxtaposition of their stock icons on the page crazymonkey posted. It couldn't be more obvious. Why couldn't they have come up with a different metaphor for settings than a gear? Or a white phone on a green background? Or a CD with musical notes for music? Without punitive legislation there's also no reason for manufacturers like Samsung to ever innovate - so in one sense it can be argued that Apple's patent lawsuits are forcing innovation by prohibiting imitation.
Click to expand...

This is the most wonderful thing I've ever seen regarding A sues S (or whatever other corporate IP Pirating case). Absolutely describes why IP should be protected. Viva!!!

You, my kind avatar, are a legend.
:)
 
In the meantime Apple have been ripping off all of Samsung and Motorola's 3G patents.

Looks as if Apple are going to lose the German cases, which amongst other remedies asks for the physical destruction of all Apple products that contain 3G technology - that obviously includes the iPhone 4s.
 
Jola said:
In the meantime Apple have been ripping off all of Samsung and Motorola's 3G patents.

Looks as if Apple are going to lose the German cases, which amongst other remedies asks for the physical destruction of all Apple products that contain 3G technology - that obviously includes the iPhone 4s.
Click to expand...

Won't mean much.
Since 3G is used by all mobile operators. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
If it get's the go-ahead, Nokia will sue the bejesus out of everyone on their massive patent list in their wireless portfolio.

Anyway, coming back to A vs. S - it's very clear (visually) that Samsung blatantly copies Apple. No hiding from it.
It's like watching Days of our Lives played out in a courtroom.
Lol.
 
a rectangular product shape with all four corners uniformly rounded;

Seriously? A phone manufacturer can patent his rectangle phone with round corners ... and then moan?

the front surface of the product dominated by a screen surface with black borders;

Apple didn't invent touchscreen - there were touch screens long before and long after Apple. How else should a company implement a touch screen? A hexicon with square corners and make sure the touch doesn't dominate?

as to the iPhone and iPod touch products, substantial black borders above and below the screen having roughly equal width and narrower black borders on either side of the screen having roughly equal width;

I almost bought a Samsung because of the equal sides ... was a close call!

a metallic surround framing the perimeter of the top surface;

Um. So no one can use a metallic frame, like some phone companies have been using on high-end phones years before?

a display of a grid of colorful square icons with uniformly rounded corners; and a bottom row of square icons (the "Springboard") set off from the other icons and that do not change as the other pages of the user interface are viewed.

Icons have been GUI interfaces since the Mac and Windows 1.0 .... is it because they're colourful or not square?
 
a rectangular box with minimal metallic silver lettering and a large front-viewpicture of the product prominently on the top surface of the box;

a two-piece box wherein the bottom piece is completely nested in the top piece; and

use of a tray that cradles products to make them immediately visible upon opening the box.

A rectangle box?
Picture of the product being sold?
Type of box?
 
AS for the icons, I can see the similarities - but :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea-expression_divide

How is one supposed to express certain ideas? They've lost on this basis before ...

A contact icon generally does have a person .... a photo may have a camera or album .... music with have a note or CD.

I'm almost sure that my Nokia from early 2000's had a 'person' on my contacts icon too - my Blackberry certainly does. I have speechbubble for BBM and a phone, for phone :/

EDIT : Somebody should due them as their 'clock' logo looks like a clock - which everyone else has used first. I notice their calculator looks like a calculator and their stocks icon look like a graph which - colour aside - looks like Bloomberg stocks.
 
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The first set of legislation I agree doesnt have a lot of merit. It seems like they want to stop the wholesale manufacture of multitouch tablets which yes, they pretty much invented, but you might as well patent a motor vehicle.

As for the icons - I understand that there will generally be a degree of keuomorphism and overlap. But look at the similarities, it's absurd. I would absolutely uphold their claim to IP protection in those cases. And yes, they are patent protected elements. Not only that, they actually provided Samsung with the means to avoid patent lawsuit, and apparently Samsung declined to change the most blatant design ripoffs in their Tab family. So yeah, sue ahead.
 
Well they lost the one, at least!

At least now other brands are allowed rectangle phones with round corners
 
noxibox said:
Amazes me that Apple is even considered to have a case here.
Click to expand...

Yea man.

This makes me think, do patents stifle innovation or promote innovation? Is the patent system being abused (to bully/to get money etc)

Just a side note. HTC currently pays Microsoft royalties for each droid HTC sells because of some patent infringement that HTC is doing to M$. The worst thing about this story is HTC have stuck by Microsoft for years. many times in the past when nobody would be willing to make a Windows Mobile 6 device, HTC still decided to make devices for M$. bleh
 
CrazYmonkeY159 said:
Yea man.
Click to expand...

No they definitely have a case.

This makes me think, do patents stifle innovation or promote innovation?
Click to expand...
Neither, they simply protect intellectual property.

Is the patent system being abused (to bully/to get money etc)
Click to expand...
It absolutely is. Microsoft is abusing the patent system instead of innovating. Apple is abusing the patent system to delimit the ability of competitors to enter the same market space. It doesn't mean to say that Apple has no case though. Patent protection has been upheld for far less.

Microsoft's tactic is pretty despicable though I have to say - they target smaller startups who don't have the capital to fight them on legal ground, and force them to capitulate to what amounts to extortion. In part I think they rationalize that they're placing a premium on Android which enables them (and iOS) to compete on a cost basis.
 
cerebus said:
Neither, they simply protect intellectual property
Click to expand...

Yes - except in Apples case.

Since cellphones were introduced in the old days, we've had Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens, LG, NEC all making phones ... 90% of the rectangle, with rounded corners and black. They all had similar size screens. They all had aerials - and had buttons. They all happily played in the marked without a concern. Some phones even looked similar - but they competed the normal way with pricing, features and benefits.

A customer knew what he wanted and which was better - and bought that phone. Simple as that. It was a wonderful decade.

Then in 2006 this new comer joined the market and fscked up the market and sued everyone around it. If the phone was rectangle or black - or has a 'simple' box - Apple targeted them. They didn't even need to make manufacturer phones ... Amazon was whacked with a lawsuit and even a family run coffee shop in Germany.

I mean seriously?
What exactly is the worry?
Is it that someone will get confused and buy the wrong tablet?

It's getting to the point where one thinks 'Apple' and instantly thinks 'sue'

EDIT : Apple has very little case - hence the courts agreeing with Samsung
 
I realize that the generic side of Apple's patent lawsuit doesn't have a lot of merit; but I already pointed out that there is a lot more to it than just the 'bezelled multitouch tablet' aspect. The entire tablet market is on a binge to wholesale rip off anything Apple does. There is very little effort to differentiate products in any meaningful identifiable way.

Google Image 'generic android tablet' and you get mountains of images like this:
mid7003a.jpg

Now what could possibly have inspired them to create a home button with a white square?
iPad-vs-Galaxy-tab.jpg

How about this blatant generic made-in-China ripo.....ooohh wait that's a Galaxy Tab.
 
We're talking about Samsung though ....

Looking at a friends Galaxy Tab 10.1 - there is no home button .... the tablet orientation is landscape with the camera/logo on the landscape section.

How else can one make a tablet?
 
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