PayFast - Fraud

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shadow_man

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Hi,

Does anyone have any connections that work at this $%#%#^#%^ useless company?

1.) I ordered goods from an online store - and paid using PayFast's payment gateway (5th of November).
2.) The goods haven't been delivered - despite numerous attempts to follow up with the merchant (doesn't answer phone or email).
3.) I've informed PayFast of this and FNB (Visa) - as this is fraud.
4.) Neither party seem to care, and at this point I've told my private banker that I'll be moving banks.

I'm supposed to have buyer protection if paying with a CC and nobody wants to take action. At this point it feels like PayFast are trying their best to defend and assist fraudulent merchants as they're getting a % of the profit - and don't really care if the customer receives any goods.

Do I have any other recourse?
Can I report them to any governing body or Visa for refusing to take action?
 
jsheed_sa said:
Do I have any other recourse?
Can I report them to any governing body or Visa for refusing to take action?
Click to expand...
Standard recourse is to do a chargeback, hey and just as I type I see R13 hinted at the same.
It would be VERY strange for the bank no to process that request, chargebacks happen all the time and the card networks' rules favour the card holder pretty much i.e. the merchant will have to prove that they delivered the goods / service else you get the money back by default.

fyi it isn't a PayFast problem, it's the merchant and the party that can best help you with recourse if the merchant isn't playing ball is the card issuer (i.e. your bank). There's not much PayFast could do even if they wanted to.
 
R13... said:
Is your bank refusing to do a charge back?
Click to expand...

I've filled out the forms and they're ignoring my requests for a follow up or any sort of commitment. It's been 2 months now. At this point I've told FNB I'm switching banks. I pay for private banking and service, both of which I don't seem to be getting.

It's a bit of a joke really.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Standard recourse is to do a chargeback, hey and just as I type I see R13 hinted at the same.
It would be VERY strange for the bank no to process that request, chargebacks happen all the time and the card networks' rules favour the card holder pretty much i.e. the merchant will have to prove that they delivered the goods / service else you get the money back by default.

fyi it isn't a PayFast problem, it's the merchant and the party that can best help you with recourse if the merchant isn't playing ball is the card issuer (i.e. your bank). There's not much PayFast could do even if they wanted to.
Click to expand...

PayFast claim they can do CC reversals, but at this stage it looks like they just don't give a ****...

"We do have the ability though, to refund credit card payments (and EFT payments to a lesser degree) through our administration system and we can process these at your request. That is to say, it is needed to resolve an issue which has occurred, rather than being something built into your business model.

If you would like a transaction reversed/refunded, please just get in touch with our support team, who will be able to assist. Have the name of the buyer available as well as the amount and the reason for the reversal."

https://support.payfast.co.za/article/55-how-do-i-refund-a-payment
 
jsheed_sa said:
it is needed to resolve an issue which has occurred, rather than being something built into your business model.

If you would like a transaction reversed/refunded, please just get in touch with our support team, who will be able to assist. Have the name of the buyer available as well as the amount and the reason for the reversal
Click to expand...
Those bits in bold are your hints, these are instructions for the merchant, if the merchant wants to request a reversal they can chat to PayFast yes. The buyer (that is you) can't request a reversal via PayFast though.

Remember the merchant is PayFast's customer, not you, you are the merchant's customer. If the merchant isn't holding up their side of the deal, then you charge back via your card issuer / bank, where you are a customer of theirs as well.

A charge back will cause admin pain for the processor (PayFast) as well as the merchant and result in you getting money back, most of the time.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Those bits in bold are your hints, these are instructions for the merchant, if the merchant wants to request a reversal they can chat to PayFast yes. The buyer (that is you) can't request a reversal via PayFast though.

Remember the merchant is PayFast's customer, not you, you are the merchant's customer. If the merchant isn't holding up their side of the deal, then you charge back via your card issuer / bank, where you are a customer of theirs as well.

A charge back will cause admin pain for the processor (PayFast) as well as the merchant and result in you getting money back, most of the time.
Click to expand...

Fair - but to be honest thats also a crock of ****.

They can do a reversal, but won't - they'd rather support merchants who are committing blatant fraud / theft.

So they don't mind if the end user gets ripped off - just as long as they get a piece of the pie.
 
Cius said:
Who is the merchant?
Click to expand...

https://shop4tools.co.za/

Admittedly I should have probably done a bit more research - as HelloPeter has horrible reviews:
https://www.hellopeter.com/shop4tools

However I figured at worst case I could do a chargeback (boy was I wrong). Additionally PayFast are still doing business with these guys - despite all of this, which again shows they're only interested in the money, fraudulent or not.
 
jsheed_sa said:
So they don't mind if the end user gets ripped off - just as long as they get a piece of the pie.
Click to expand...
They "care" in the sense that a fraudulent merchant can really hurt their business if it gets out of hand. If fraud cases or charge backs start piling up specifically for transactions via PayFast, believe you me they will get pressure from banks and ultimately even the card network that threaten their business model and they will drop that merchant.

Hell even a perfectly honest merchant that has become the target of fraudsters will be under a lot of pressure very quickly. The system kind of relies on the banks doing their part though. So FNB is really dropping the ball here.
 
You'll most likely end up finding a relationship between FNB and the store. I had a similiar issue where FNB made it difficult because the supplier also banked with them.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
They "care" in the sense that a fraudulent merchant can really hurt their business if it gets out of hand. If fraud cases or charge backs start piling up specifically for transactions via PayFast, believe you me they will get pressure from banks and ultimately even the card network that threaten their business model and they will drop that merchant.

Hell even a perfectly honest merchant that has become the target of fraudsters will be under a lot of pressure very quickly. The system kind of relies on the banks doing their part though. So FNB is really dropping the ball here.
Click to expand...

Somehow I'm not seeing it.

1.) I've got over 10+ emails to PayFast and probably the same to FNB (dragging out over 2 months). I've logged payment disputes with both.
2.) They keep promising to revert back and never do (both PayFast and FNB) (surprise).
3.) I even got an email from them saying they're sorry the way their support agent (PayFast) has handled this and that it's now escalated to the team lead (and then surprise, no response).
4.) They've get a merchant (PayFast) with a ton of fraudulent reviews - that they're still supporting.

I make use of them for other payments and won't be using them again.

I'm not having a go at you, but the service is a joke and I'm experiencing the complete opposite of what you're suggesting should be the norm.
 
jsheed_sa said:
I've filled out the forms and they're ignoring my requests for a follow up or any sort of commitment. It's been 2 months now.
Click to expand...

It can take a while for a chargeback to be processed. When completing the form, what reason did you give for the chargeback? Looking at an online form I found, it should've been something like this:

"I never received the merchandise that I have been debited for. I attempted to resolve the dispute with the merchant more than 30 days ago. (Attachcopy of communication to merchant/ service provide"

Only reason I mention this, is that if the wrong reason is selected, it could cause the dispute to fail.
 
jsheed_sa said:
Somehow I'm not seeing it
Click to expand...
You're one person though, it would be interesting to know if all the other negative reviewers also tried to do charge backs, if that is in fact the case then it's quite odd that things just keep going as they have been.

jsheed_sa said:
I'm not having a go at you, but the service is a joke and I'm experiencing the complete opposite of what you're suggesting should be the norm.
Click to expand...
Sure, I get that, happily I have no relationship with PayFast whatsoever, I just happen to have significant payment industry experience is all. Your bank is supposed to be in your corner, it is truly shocking that they are not treating this with more urgency.

Good luck chatting to Visa directly though, that might do the trick. You could also try the ombudsman, but you might find the banking ombudsman saying it's not their job, but rather the credit regulator (because credit card) and similar excuses.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You're one person though, it would be interesting to know if all the other negative reviewers also tried to do charge backs, if that is in fact the case then it's quite odd that things just keep going as they have been.


Sure, I get that, happily I have no relationship with PayFast whatsoever, I just happen to have significant payment industry experience is all. Your bank is supposed to be in your corner, it is truly shocking that they are not treating this with more urgency.

Good luck chatting to Visa directly though, that might do the trick. You could also try the ombudsman, but you might find the banking ombudsman saying it's not their job, but rather the credit regulator (because credit card) and similar excuses.
Click to expand...

Thanks - those are good suggestions.

It will be interesting to see if this gets escalated, when the banker assigned to me (by FNB) gets back on the 2nd.

Right now I'm in the process of opening up accounts with Investec - if FNB refuse to listen then I'm going to do the only thing I can, which is to hurt them financially. It will end up costing them far more in missed fee's / lost revenue than the R2000 I'm owed.
 
Can't go wrong with Investec. I only hope they maintain their service, as the cost of banking with them keeps escalating.


FNB used to be great, but also slid about 10 years ago.
 
Necro-ing this thread.

My wife recently made a purchase from an online merchant that also seems like it was just a exit scam. Zappychef/Zappyware. Looks like they created a few social media pages and a website in November and advertised a few sponsered ads on facebook. I usually tell her to only use trusted shops such as takealot, zando etc. But anyway, was too late she ordered some stuff.

The website has since been offline and no more activity on their social media pages, just some people realising they have been scammed on Instagram's comments it seems.

Anyway, the website used PayFast, which was a bit odd to me, I am not sure what procurement these websites have to go through to make use of there service. Is is really that easy to set up a scam business and accept payments through PayFast.

My question, what is there to be done? She payed with a Capitec Debit Card (Mastercard). Who can you contact to at least attempt to get some funds back, PayFast? Capitec? Mastercard?
 
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