dlk001
Executive Member
So - apart from forum polls, facebook groups and swearing on youtube () - what are we going to do next?
Am I right to assume that the question is "What are we going to do next as Whites?"
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Pierre de Vos - Whites must take responsibility too
- Thread starter grayston
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Am I right to assume that the question is "What are we going to do next as Whites?"
I think he's saying - "as South Africans".
Uh, no. That's what Malema and his idiot horde want you to do. They're blaming you for apartheid. I'm sure you will agree with me that that is stupid. You didn't ask to be born white.
However, even if you aren't to blame, you received some privileges thanks to Apartheid. It just depends whether you're going to use those privileges to lord yourself over the poor stupid little black people, or if you will actually start treating them as equals and pre-emptively taking the wind out of Malema's sails when he tries to call you a racist. Your level of education gives you the means to do exactly that.
I *know* he's talking rubbish and that there is no way anyone can even find a white racist these days - not even in Ventersdorp. But it must be admitted that there's no scientific test for racism yet, and some actions will be seen as 'racist' regardless of the spirit in which they are made. Rendier's carpentry school for Port Elisabeth kiddies comes to mind. I wouldn't want to be taught by a prick like him and I quite sympathise with anyone who wants to get as far away from him as possible.
This isn't about handing out blame.
It's about rising above the blame-mongers and taking away their ammunition.
The opposite is just as true... If not more
Regarding Malema's ranting any sane rational person would react with dismay, anger and voice outrage. Malema doesn't need white racism to get such a reaction
For what?
On the contrary. All he advocates is more divisive focus on race. As if somehow in the future race harmony would appear out of thin air one day as a result. AA is justified in a similar fashion and all that's done in realty is stoke the fires.
This guy really has a chip on his shoulder the size of this continent. Looking through his articles I see plenty of ranting at the "chattering classes", "smug middle-class chauvinism", "class" and "white" this and that.
With all this leftist ramblings one wonders if he was weaned over at UCT by the SLA terrorist James Kilgore?
Tell that to my grandfather who lost his job as a town clerk because he was not a Nat and English speaking. He had to pack up his whole family and leave to find another similar job. Privileged indeed.
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We didnt receive privileges thanks to apartheid. Apartheid denied rights to the majority of the country but it did not give actually benefit whites in any meaningful way. You will struggle to find a "privilege" we have that the whites in the US, Australia or Europe dont have anyway.
You and Pierre de Vos are going about this the wrong way. Dont try tell white people to help black people because we are white and have had "privileges" rather tell the middle-class and up to help the poor because its the right thing to do.
Snoob
Well-Known Member
Let's forget about colour and talk IQ / EQ...
murraybiscuit
Executive Member
as always, there are good and bad examples.
abuse should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
unfortunately farm workers don't have education, skills or scarcity with which to bargain.
proper legislation and funding of education is the only thing which will improve the lot of the poor long term imo.
tambo, mandela, biko, mbeki, suzman, tutu were either educators or educated.
the problem with julius is that he was learning to use firearms at the age of 13 instead of doing his homework.
this means that he knew what he was fighting against, but lacked the ideology of what it should be replaced with.
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I put my hand up and volunteered to participated in the ESKOM mentor programme, but at the end of the day ESKOM was left with a fully compliant AA/BEE/%^$&* work force with qualifications that looked good on paper, but could not, and did not perform the duties on hand, because of laziness, lack of interest, incapable of applying theoretical training, .......... just downright useless, and this lead to myself and a few of my ex-colleagues contracting ours services to ESKUM for a handsome fee.
It was made clear to the highly skilled and experienced whities that career paths in management and middle management was not an option.
Sadly, that is completely true.
It's also a rubbish excuse for allowing it all to continue.
I know someone who worked at Koeberg. He was told he wasnt needed anymore but they kept asking him to come back when they had problems no one else could fix. At age 55 he was head hunted by British Gas and now lives in the UK helping to run their nuclear power stations.
This happened before Koeberg had all those problems.
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Quite right. However - to take a wild example - do you think Dozi's recent racist outburst helped, or hurt Malema?
You really do sound like PeterCH defending the pope sometimes...
The focus isn't on race. Or rather - it isn't exclusively on the 'white' race. The ANC has messed up too. Black people have messed up too. So have Indians, coloureds, Chinese and so on.
But now you want to stand up, as a white person, and say "I'm better than all those other races because I'm absolutely blameless."
Even if that was true, Alan, how do you think it's going to resolve racial tensions?
I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.
Now are you going to nurse this sore the rest of your life, or are you going to move on? How many years ago did this happen? Was it more than 16? Shouldn't you be getting over it already? ;-)
dlk001
Executive Member
Yeah. Try telling that to a black person. It's not going to go down well.
De Vos is also telling "black" people to do their bit as well. I'm sure you'll notice that a lot of government is made up of black people in a perfect position to make a difference for the poor.
The fact that they don't is a fault of the ruling party. It isn't an inevitable side-effect of being black.
Anyway. There's two choices here. One is to absolve yourself of any and all responsibility for anything that happens in this country and wait for the ANC to sort everything out while you cower behind your couch nervously fingering the safety catch on your pistol. Or you could swallow a tiny bit of pride and treat people as people, thus taking the wind out of the sails of our overtly racist friends in government.
You know that a lot of the things the government says against white people has to do with perception. They have successfully convinced a lot of the population that the white race is out to get them, doesn't care about them, and thinks they smell. Sadly, sometimes the government isn't that far wrong.
Whether it has any truth or not, we need to turn this perception around. I hate to paraphrase Steve Hofmeyer, but the point at the end of the day is: "Don't give the ANC what it wants."
The ANC wants white people it can demonise, to move attention away from the ANC's own failings. The idea I'm hoping you take away with you today, is that you should try to make it even more difficult for the ANC to demonise you personally.
Yeah, it's an uphill battle. Who'd have thought a bunch of white guys could be so thin-skinned?
No, I would never try telling that to a black person. Even though its the truth.
No its the inevitable side-effect of not being accountable. I believe 100% that if the roles were reversed and whites were the majority but poor and did not hold our government to account we would be in exactly the same boat.
But as I have said earlier in this thread, I agree that we should all be doing more to help the less fortunate. I do help, but not enough. Most people dont help at all and that goes for both black and white.
If you don't see an advantage in not having 90% of your country competing with you in the work force, or even able to get an education in order to compete in the first place, then you're not sure what the word 'privilege' means.
marine1
Honorary Master
Hmmm so how does one explain farm genocide?
Sorry that cr@p doesnt mean a thing.
Fact of the matter is that as of 1994, farmers are and have been killed systematically and the gvt either are involved or couldnt care.
Sorry that cr@p doesnt mean a thing.
Fact of the matter is that as of 1994, farmers are and have been killed systematically and the gvt either are involved or couldnt care.
I would have had the same if not better education in Europe and I would not have struggled to get a job there either. I will repeat what I said earlier - You will struggle to find a "privilege" we have that the whites in the US, Australia or Europe dont have anyway.
DigitalSoldier
Honorary Master
My aunt with a proper degree from Tuks used to teach at black only school, when the ANC came to power she was forced to leave the school by the pupils. The pupils threatened all white teachers with death if they didn't leave the school.