Please help with Satrix investment information?

Airedale

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I need some clarification on Satrix investments.
I know of one person investing in satrixRAFI and satrixDIVI and another person investing in satrix40.
Both are long term investments. Which is better and what would be the reasoning behind these 2 individuals different decisions. I am not an investment guru, so I need someone to explain it to me please:)
 
I will give my reasoning for choosing satrixRAFI and satrixDIVI over satrix40:

They are "analysed" ETFs, while satrix40 is a dumb ETF, just take the biggest market cap and you have it.

The satrixRAFI and satrixDIVI will give good dividend payouts which will be reinvested and for long term growth I think that will be better than the satrix40. I'm sure there is lots of overlap in almost all non-resource shares on the satrix40 with satrixRAFI and satrixDIVI. I might investigate that later after lunch...
 
How about sartricINDI? Isn't it outperforming all of them?
 
Not aimed directly at the OP but it does baffle me how often people look for investment advice on an anonymous forum. The investor, if he heeds the advice, has absolutely no recourse if poor advice is given.
 
Not aimed directly at the OP but it does baffle me how often people look for investment advice on an anonymous forum. The investor, if he heeds the advice, has absolutely no recourse if poor advice is given.

Yeah, but it helps to hear opinions from a lot of different sources.
 
I need some clarification on Satrix investments.
I know of one person investing in satrixRAFI and satrixDIVI and another person investing in satrix40.
Both are long term investments. Which is better and what would be the reasoning behind these 2 individuals different decisions. I am not an investment guru, so I need someone to explain it to me please:)
You can't really make a "which is better" argument with Satrix products - it all depends on your invesment philosophy and the type of returns you prefer. All Satrix products track some FTSE/JSE index. The ones in your post track the following:

Satrix 40: Tracks the Top 40 index which reflects the performance of the 40 largest companies listed on the JSE. "Largest" here refers just to the companies market capitalisation which is the number of shares in issue times the share price. The performance of the companies' shares are weighted by their market capitalisations which means that the largest companies (Anglo, MTN, BHP Billiton, British American Tobacco, SAB, etc) have the biggest impact on the level of the index.

Satrix DIVI: Tracks the Dividend Plus (DIVI) index. The DIVI is constructed from the 30 companies with the highest 1-year forecast dividend yields. Just by construction you would expect that the Satrix DIVI will give most of it's return in the form of dividends instead of capital gains as may be the case with the Satrix 40. There is some overlap between this and the Top 40 index (e.g. Absa, Sasol are on both the DIVI and the Top 40) but in general the companies included in the DIVI are quite different from those in the Top 40. At the moment the largest holding in the DIVI is Coronation at 5.2% of the index which implies that it is relatively diversified compared to the Top 40 where the largest holding (Billiton) represents about 15% of the total. Because of this it can be argued that the DIVI is "lower" risk than the Top 40 even though it is still a 100% equity investment.

Satrix RAFI: Tracks the FTSE/JSE RAFI index. It is constructed using a method developed by Research Affiliates (an American investment firm) where the weights used depend on the companies' "fundamentals" including dividends, cash flow and sales. Using a method like this theoretically gets rid of a couple of "problems" with the market capitalisation method used by the Top 40. e.g. where an index like the Top 40 will reflect market sentiment almost exactly the RAFI will outperform if a company outperforms market expectations. So, it's useful if you think that the markets are inefficient in that all information is NOT reflected in the current share price.

It would look like the one person in your want regular income and believes that fundamentals are better indicators of company performance than the company's current share price while the other one is happy just to track the Top 40. Both of these are perfectly valid strategies - it really just depends on your point of view.

Just don't be one of those people who just looks at the past performance of the products and then makes a decision - think about what you want out of the investment and then talk to a properly accredited financial advisor. Past performance is almost never an indication of future performance and these three products actually have very similar performances over the last year:

Satrix 40:16.8%
Satrix Divi: 16.1%
Satrix RAFI: 17.4% (bearing in mind that for the RAFI dividends are automatically reinvested)
 
Not aimed directly at the OP but it does baffle me how often people look for investment advice on an anonymous forum. The investor, if he heeds the advice, has absolutely no recourse if poor advice is given.

Is he asking for advice?

He is asking for reasoning and then I gave him my reasoning and the why of my reasoning. He isn't asking for advice. When I ask something on here I ask for opinions and to see if there is something I missed or have not considered.
 
Is he asking for advice?

He is asking for reasoning and then I gave him my reasoning and the why of my reasoning. He isn't asking for advice. When I ask something on here I ask for opinions and to see if there is something I missed or have not considered.

Read again....

"Not aimed directly at the OP...."
 
Is he asking for advice?

He is asking for reasoning and then I gave him my reasoning and the why of my reasoning. He isn't asking for advice. When I ask something on here I ask for opinions and to see if there is something I missed or have not considered.

Just before asking for reasoning he asks which one is better. That is asking for advice.
 
OK, here is my analysis:

If you have Satrix DIVI and RAFI (59 seperate companies due to 11 company overlap between the two), you are invested in 36 of the 42 shares currently on the Satrix Top40. The percentages held is obviously different.

If you have just Satrix DIVI (30 companies), you are invested in 15 of the 42 shares currently on the Satrix Top40. The percentages held is obviously different.

If you have just Satrix RAFI (40 companies), you are invested in 34 of the 42 shares currently on the Satrix Top40. The percentages held is obviously different.
 
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Not asking for advice, I'm not interested in investing with Satrix.
Was just looking for the reasoning behind the decisions made by others.

Thanks Rkootknir!!!
 
There is that, and also, if you went to one of the many unscrupulous financial advisor's out there it would be best to be armed with as much knowledge as possible.

Then it's easier to pick up whether the advisor is talking crap to you.
Most of them know bugger-all about investing and are only told what to push.

And I would agree with buying etf's, or UT's yourself instead of paying commission to an advisor.
They are a real waste of money.

Yeah, I feel much the same way about "computer technicians" to tell you the truth. Rather do it yourself. Problem is some people out there do not even know how to switch on a computer never mind fix any issues. Likewise some people have no clue about investing.

I can tell you now that the money earned off a UT is hardly worth the time expended advising the client. Unless the person is investing a fairly large amount every month the chances are that it is even far less than that computer technician charges to install your own copy of Microsoft Office onto your computer.
 
Yeah, I feel much the same way about "computer technicians" to tell you the truth. Rather do it yourself. Problem is some people out there do not even know how to switch on a computer never mind fix any issues. Likewise some people have no clue about investing.

I can tell you now that the money earned off a UT is hardly worth the time expended advising the client. Unless the person is investing a fairly large amount every month the chances are that it is even far less than that computer technician charges to install your own copy of Microsoft Office onto your computer.

Lol! That is why im in a firm believer of DIY for everything, AFTER thorough research that is! I suppose once i have a couple billion i may pay someone else to give me a little advice ;P
 
I was in STXRAF when I first started then got despondent with the results. The STX40 is just too volatile for my purpose.
Somebody stated here that past good performance hardly ever continues. I totally disagree. Who in their right mind would invest in a share that has a history of volatility like most top 40 stocks do. They will continue to do so. Would you not rather go for shares that just keep going up and up slowly but surely over a long period?
A 5 year chart of a share that looks like a complex Sinus Curve will continue in this manner. Don't you think?
This is why I would say to conservative investors to go for STXINDI and a smaller amount in the Divi.
Look at http://www.sharenet.co.za/ on the RHS bottom you will see that the STXINDI has been the best performing UT over 5 years.
I have been with sharenet since 2005 and STXINDI has been on top and only occasionally switching with 36ONE.
 
I'm a BIG fan of STXINDI, its returned an average of 23.93℅ (incl divi's) per year for the last 10 years.
What worries me, has it run too hard?, and about to burst its bubble?
 
Thats the great thing about STXINDI, it changes, its not like the Satrix industrial, finance or resource indexes where you are in a specific sector and a bubble can build.

2 years ago Telkom was in there and now its gone, no more good dividends from them so they're gone, while I see that Sasol has joined the good dividends party in the past few months.

I think you refering to STXDIVI? STXINDI tracks the Industrial 25, and is based on market cap only, nothing to do with dividends they pay.
 
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I deleted it, read incorrectly in my sleepy mode and typed like crap as well.

Yes, there could be a bubble developing in Indi...


Edit: my point on Divi still stands though, harder for it to get a bubble...
 
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