Potential WC attacks - where is the outrage ?

[daveza]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20100530123140171C929687

Serious security threat at WC, says paper

South Africa might fall victim to a terrorist attack during the World Cup, according to a report in the Sunday Times, quoting an investigative group and other sources.

The recent arrest in Iraq of Abdullah Azzam al-Qahtani, an alleged al-Qaeda supporter who claimed he was planning attacks on the Dutch and Danish teams, has revived debate on whether the tournament faces a threat of this kind.

Qahtani's scheme was later dismissed as posing no serious threat.

South African officials have long said their non-aligned status and a lack of any substantial local support for militant groups should insulate them from attacks during the June 11-July 11 event.

Both the government and soccer's governing body, Fifa, which is co-operating with foreign security agencies and Interpol, have helped strengthen that view by stating that no viable threat has been identified.

However, analysts and security experts believe that such actions cannot be ruled out because of the huge attention that even a small attack would get during the tournament.

The Johannesburg-based paper said Ronald Sandee, director of the NEFA Foundation, which investigates possible terrorist activities, had briefed the US Congress counter-terrorism caucus on possible threats to the tournament.

He warned that Pakistani and Somali militants were running training camps in northern Mozambique, and that trainees from these camps might have already crossed into South Africa to form or join cells planning attacks.

"I believe there is an 80 percent chance of an attack," he told the paper, adding that strike teams were well established in South Africa.

"Information confirms that several venues will be targeted, some simultaneously, others at random. Reference is also made to the possibility of a kamikaze-type attack," the paper quoted him as saying.

He said that numerous references had been made to World Cup attacks in closed-frequency radio broadcasts and phone intercepts in Mauritania, Algeria, Mali, Pakistan and Yemen.

However, the police have dismissed the allegations.

"I don't know where they got their information from. We have all our strategies and plans in place," said Police Senior Superintendent Vish Naidoo.

"We have intelligence briefings every day and there is nothing even suggesting what has been suggested by the Sunday Times."

The paper said South African security and intelligence had drawn up a watch-list of 40 possible suspects, quoting unnamed insider sources. Naidoo declined to comment.

While South Africa has not been targeted in recent years, several militants involved in attacks around the world are known to have spent time in the country, which experts say has acted as a safe haven and staging post for operations elsewhere.

Critics claim that widespread corruption among the police and officials, including the sale of South African passports, has undermined counter-terrorism efforts.

Sandee said the match between the United States and England on June 12 could be a particular target, along with fixtures involving the Danish and Dutch teams, should militants move to avenge perceived insults against Islam. - Reuters

So ' maybe ' there is an actual terrorist threat, but there seems sufficient evidence that there are supporters of islamic terror groups within our borders.

So, where is the outrage from the ' real ' muslims at the possible atrocities which would be carried out in the name of islam ?

Why are these sympathisers allowed to corrupt the ' true islamic beliefs ' and yet there is not a peep from the real muslims who are so offended by a drawing.

' Real ' muslims - it's time to show us infidels that you will not tolerate these corrupter's of the faith - or else shut up and take whatever criticism comes your way.

 

[porchrat]

Where did they suck these numbers from?

80%?

What is South Africa's base percentage? How do they measure these percentages? Is there a giant terrorism percentage machine that they plug the name of the country into and it spits out a number at the end? oooooooooooooh sciencey.

Why be outraged over something that has it's basis in shaky opinions?

 

[LazyLion]

Well looking at it from a Christian point of view... if it was a radical Christian group doing this (as unlikely as that is), I would not regard them as representative of me or my faith. They are as alien and foreign to me as a Martian. So to expect me as a Christian to speak against it or to take action against it... is like asking all South Africans to explain or take action against those other South Africans who carried out the Xenophobic attacks.

So to be fair, the moderate South African Muslim community probably regard these guys as aberrations from the faith and as far removed from them as an Aborigine or a Maori.

Having said that though... I would still be quick to express my condemnation here. The very least I can do is express my verbal outrage no matter who these attackers are or where they are from.

Just because someone does something in someone else's name... doesn't mean that person or group has agreed with or authorised their actions.

That is the key. These radicals must realize that there is no support or sympathy for them from anybody else in the world, Muslim or otherwise.

Hopefully all peace loving Muslims would agree with that.

 

[LazerFazer]

Well looking at it from a Christian point of view... if it was a radical Christian group doing this (as unlikely as that is), I would not regard them as representative of me or my faith. They are as alien and foreign to me as a Martian. So to expect me as a Christian to speak against it or to take action against it... is like asking all South Africans to explain or take action against those other South Africans who carried out the Xenophobic attacks.

So to be fair, the moderate South African Muslim community probably regard these guys as aberrations from the faith and as far removed from them as an Aborigine or a Maori.

Having said that though... I would still be quick to express my condemnation here. The very least I can do is express my verbal outrage no matter who these attackers are or where they are from.

Just because someone does something in someone else's name... doesn't mean that person or group has agreed with or authorised their actions.

That is the key. These radicals must realize that there is no support or sympathy for them from anybody else in the world, Muslim or otherwise.

Hopefully all peace loving Muslims would agree with that.

Exactly. Another thing, you gotta ask yourself, why do these guys do this? The answer: Publicity. Think about it right, lets take the September 11 attacks as an example. Yes, a few thousand people died (I'm in NO WAY trying to brush off their deaths as insignificant). But that really doesn't help any extremists' agenda. Do you really think some guy is sitting somewhere thinking "Right, 5000 down, another 5 billion to go". It seems much more likely that they're doing it for the publicity.

Back to the World Cup threat, yes, it's real, and I just hope the SAPS and Hawks/Scorpions/whatever they call themselves are taking this threat seriously. Coming from a moderate Muslim household, I really am appalled by what extremists do in the name of Islam. And honestly, I've lived in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, visited a fair amount of Europe and 4 cities in the US, and I can say without a doubt that SA is the best place to be, as a Muslim. If anyone claims otherwise, I honestly wonder what part of SA they're living in. Sure, there are a bunch of anti-Muslim bigots, but that's all over the place. Just as there are anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-Hindu, etc. people. What I don't get is, how are we supposed to show 'outrage' when those bigots (yes, I'm talking to you OP) refuse to listen anyway. Have you been to all the Mosques in the country, every day, at every prayer time? Have you listened to every word spoken by Muslims in SA the past month (I'm making it easy for you)? So don't come here with your unsubstantiated claims ("Why are these sympathisers allowed to corrupt the ' true islamic beliefs ' and yet there is not a peep from the real muslims who are so offended by a drawing.") when you haven't even tried to find out our true feelings.

I'm sure you wouldn't believe me anyway if I told you everything is being done from our side to prevent some lunatic from ruining the world cup.

 

[daveza]

I'm sure you wouldn't believe me anyway if I told you everything is being done from our side to prevent some lunatic from ruining the world cup.

I would be happy to believe you.

But surely given all the animosity and anti-muslim sentiment this kind of threat causes us non-muslims would perhaps feel differently if ' real ' muslims spoke out beyond the walls of the mosque.

They are quite willing to take to the streets, blogs etc when their sensitivities have been offended by non-muslims - I would expect the same visible response for those within their community who are offending the true islam which we keep being told is a faith of peace.

 

[superfantasties]

*draws muhammed*

 

[Palimino]

I would be happy to believe you.

But surely given all the animosity and anti-muslim sentiment this kind of threat causes us non-muslims would perhaps feel differently if ' real ' muslims spoke out beyond the walls of the mosque.

They are quite willing to take to the streets, blogs etc when their sensitivities have been offended by non-muslims - I would expect the same visible response for those within their community who are offending the true islam which we keep being told is a faith of peace.

Yeah, that.

 

[Frankie]

lets take the September 11 attacks as an example. Yes, a few thousand people died (I'm in NO WAY trying to brush off their deaths as insignificant). But that really doesn't help any extremists' agenda. Do you really think some guy is sitting somewhere thinking "Right, 5000 down, another 5 billion to go"

Many muslims around the world celebrated the islamist terrorist attack on September 11 2001, with many dancing in the streets with joy in muslim countries.

There is obviously a problem with the fundamental teachings, and these fundamentals are being taught by muslim clerics, such as the one involved in the Bali bombing, so it's inappropriate to expect the world not to associate islam with terrorist activities.

 

[daveza]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/May/Week4/15640721.jpg - ' Pakistani protesters burn Obama effigy as they protest against Facebook '

So anyone - wtf has Obama got to do with Facebook ?

Islam has a serious image problem but we hear nothing from them with ridiculous displays such as this.

Whenever there is a terrorist act the west jumps to conclusions that muslims did it - and muslims are very quick to deny it was ' real ' muslims.

But when the muslims have their bubbles pricked they are even quicker to blame the US.

 

[grayston]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/May/Week4/15640721.jpg - ' Pakistani protesters burn Obama effigy as they protest against Facebook '

So anyone - wtf has Obama got to do with Facebook ?

He's leader of the free world, isn't he? And therefore accountable for its dreadful acts of irreverence.

Islam has a serious image problem but we hear nothing from them with ridiculous displays such as this.

Whenever there is a terrorist act the west jumps to conclusions that muslims did it - and muslims are very quick to deny it was ' real ' muslims.

But when the muslims have their bubbles pricked they are even quicker to blame the US.

Not just Muslims - you should hear how black people complain when they're told not to sacrifice cows in their backyards...

And just look at the way Christians defend those paedophiles in the Vatican. Ghastly, eh?


I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it's a helpful angle to take. The point is that a fundamentalist is a fundamentalist. Whether it's Jesus, Allah or the Ancestors telling him to be an arse is neither here nor there.

The Muslim community will not condemn "Islamic" terrorist attacks because no such thing exists.

 

[daveza]

The Muslim community will not condemn "Islamic" terrorist attacks because no such thing exists.

Well isn't that just the cop-out.

I presume they are committed by non-real muslims then.

 

[Frankie]

Well isn't that just the cop-out.

I presume they are committed by non-real muslims then.

I've asked the question here before, and it remains unanswered, and that is, the Christmas day Detroit underpants plane bomber claims to be a muslim, do the muslims on this forum accept and confirm that he is in fact a muslim?

 

[Anony-mousse]

what a burden religion is to the world...

 

[Fudzy]

He's leader of the free world, isn't he? And therefore accountable for its dreadful acts of irreverence.



Not just Muslims - you should hear how black people complain when they're told not to sacrifice cows in their backyards...

And just look at the way Christians defend those paedophiles in the Vatican. Ghastly, eh?


I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it's a helpful angle to take. The point is that a fundamentalist is a fundamentalist. Whether it's Jesus, Allah or the Ancestors telling him to be an arse is neither here nor there.

The Muslim community will not condemn "Islamic" terrorist attacks because no such thing exists.

Exactly, there are so many idiots on this forum so quick to paint every Muslim as a bomb wearing suicidal extremists. As mentioned above, I don't think it is as black and white to just ask all Muslims why there are certain sects of followers who go to these extremes.

Btw, I'm pretty sure there aren't that many Muslims on this board, the aforementioned idiots make it quite easy to see that there is a lot of hatred for them here.

 

[Hosehead]

Where did they suck these numbers from?

80%?

What is South Africa's base percentage? How do they measure these percentages? Is there a giant terrorism percentage machine that they plug the name of the country into and it spits out a number at the end? oooooooooooooh sciencey.


Why be outraged over something that has it's basis in shaky opinions?

It's a shaky foundation at best. Pulling numbers out of a hat.

source http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2008/09/interesting-video-on-even-more.html

"The NEFA Foundation is a non-profit organization created after the attacks of September 11, 2001. The Foundation strives to help prevent future tragedies in the U.S. and abroad by exposing those responsible for planning, funding, and executing terrorist activities, with a particular emphasis on Islamic militant organizations."

The alleged founder of NEFA is M.T. Hayes , here is the blurb on her:

M.T. Hayes, a founder of the NEFA Foundation, is the President and CEO of the NEFA Foundation. Her noteworthy successes over the past two decades, in numerous areas of non-profit leadership, made her the ideal person to shape and lead this unique organization. Her expertise in the areas of strategic planning; communications; board development; and philanthropy has helped numerous non-profits reach their organizational and financial goals. Hayes is an experienced researcher, writer, and editor, and is a creative professional whose strategic perspective and enthusiastic commitment to the work of the Foundation have proven to be an invaluable resource. Hayes has served on numerous boards and as both president and international delegate of professional organizations. An effective speaker, Hayes speaks regularly to audiences on the subjects of non-profit board recruitment and development.



Now when I put M.T. Hayes into the google search , what comes up? Nothing on this person.
When I put M.T. Hayes researcher, in the google search the only hit that comes up is NEFA.
That's it!
This person MT Hayes who for the past twenty years has had "noteworthy success", in all these alleged areas of expertise, appears to have nothing but NEFA to her credit. Interesting!

Also notice, when you go to the website you will note there is no picture of this successful researcher philanthropist of two decades. Yet there are pictures and bio's of the other NEFA members. Many of whom have ties to the US Justice Dept, the Dutch Ministry of Defence, FBI, Homeland Security, etc., Interesting check it out!

What is not clear about this group?
Does it founder really exist? No picture, nothing comes up in the search, nadda.
This non-profit group as it so claims, which one assumes has a ring of charity to it, but, I don't think so. Where are they getting the money to pay the people who do this alleged work for this foundation? Who funds this foundation? Could this foundation be sponsored by the US government? It would definitely be non-profit, if salaries are simply paid for by the US gov., via taxpayer dollars, wouldn't it? Of course it would!

 

[daveza]

Exactly, there are so many idiots on this forum so quick to paint every Muslim as a bomb wearing suicidal extremists.

There is a clear distinction between peace loving muslims and extremist nutters. My point is we never hear from the former when the latter cause carnage.

That said, the tables can be easily turned - and from what one reads and hears, all westerners are zionist lovers and supporters of American occupation.

 

[Fudzy]

That said, the tables can be easily turned - and from what one reads and hears, all westerners are zionist lovers and supporters of American occupation.

Exactly. A lot can be said for where you choose to get your information from as well.

 

[d0b33]

Watch the axis of evil comedy tour, Muslims talking about sterotypes like this, I googled Muslim comedians after the zapiro overeaction... funny stuff out there lol.

 

[JK8]

I went to pick up my soccer tickets. Over 80% of the ticket buyers/collectors were Muslim...
They even setting up a prayer facility for Friday prayers on opening day!

Why would "they" want to spoil our WC?
I call BS just Americans trying to cause trouble as always.

 

[Frankie]

Why would "they" want to spoil our WC?

Why did they want to spoil the party in Bali?