Prenuptial contract

[FuLL_MeT4L]

You can try Roelien Roodt Inc. Their number is 021 982 2542 or email [email protected]
I've had good service from them in the past.

Thanks man. Have popped them an email!

 

[Vegeta]

Hey guys i'm also getting married soon

If we don't have jack we specifically want to stipulate and want to get married out of community of property with accrual for protection against future risks do we need to see a lawyer or do we just tick the box that says Out of community somewhere on the forms?

 

[LazyLion]

Hey guys i'm also getting married soon

If we don't have jack we specifically want to stipulate and want to get married out of community of property with accrual for protection against future risks do we need to see a lawyer or do we just tick the box that says Out of community somewhere on the forms?

You have to see a lawyer, or do it online at the link I posted.

You need a contract drawn up.

Simply saying that you don't want to be married in COP is not enough.

 

[Vegeta]

Well that's a good thousand bucks down the drain and for what? A standard form with blanks to fill in names

 

[LazyLion]

Well that's a good thousand bucks down the drain and for what? A standard form with blanks to fill in names

That's how the lawyers roll!

But that web site I gave is quite a bit less than a thousand.

 

[Arthur]

Getting married was the most serious thing I've ever done. For that reason I made sure I didn't hedge my bets in any way. And the marvellous thing is neither did she. Once decided, it was all or nothing. Whole. Entire. Complete. Without reservations of any kind, express or implied.

That's why we intentionally and specifically got married in community of property. And I come from a very established legal family.

Not only that.

We have only ever had one single bank account, with full and equal authority over it. For us, marriage is far too serious and far too beautiful a thing to reserve out little bits for yourself. My wife still jokes that I'm "Income" and she's "Expenditure". And that's great. Twenty six years and still trucking. And the sex is better than ever, because nothing is held back. That alone is worth it, though of course there's very much more. (Must dash - she's just called me for a skinny-dip.)

Edit: So why not be "practical" and have an ANC (antenuptial contract)? Because for us the calamity of the marriage ending would be far worse than mere bits of property, even if it's millions. We risked everything. And we still do. That's one of the nicest thing to know about our marriage - everything is at stake.

Recommended.

 

[fastesthamster]

That's why we intentionally and specifically got married in community of property. And I come from a very established legal family.

As I said previously, romance aside, there is still a very good financial reason to be married out of community of property. Should one of you go bankrupt, or one of your businesses fail, then both of you will be wiped out financially. It makes no financial sense whatsoever to be married in community of property.

 

[rorz0r]

For myself and fiance we are both likely to be involved with own businesses etc so there's that aspect (plus other methods of protection if you start a business). Additionally she has a CA she worked her arse off for 8 years for and if married in cop and I get declared insolvent she could lose it.
It makes more sense to me to protect yourself so if the other goes "down" you can help as opposed to you both being down and having to struggle, and even more so if there are dependants to support.

 

[murraybiscuit]

As I said previously, romance aside, there is still a very good financial reason to be married out of community of property. Should one of you go bankrupt, or one of your businesses fail, then both of you will be wiped out financially. It makes no financial sense whatsoever to be married in community of property.

Come on hamster. You know the whole for richer or poorer bit. Why deny yourselves the privilege of being able to suffer TOGETHER. What kind of a team player are you?

 

[Arthur]

As I said previously, romance aside, there is still a very good financial reason to be married out of community of property. Should one of you go bankrupt, or one of your businesses fail, then both of you will be wiped out financially. It makes no financial sense whatsoever to be married in community of property.

Sure. But it all depends how high you rank finances. In the early days you might think nothing of marrying with ANC, but inevitably, as living happens, pressures come and the relationship takes strain, and, well, these conditional reservations have a way of taking higher precedence, and this can (and often does) subtly undermine the commitment to mutuality. I've seen it happen so often. Besides, most people I know married with ANCs, and not in a single case was it used to protect one spouse in the face of insolvency - it was always used to get out as much stuff as possible when the marriage imploded. In my own view that ANC was a factor in making the implosion bearable and this contributed to the collapse. If more was at stake for many couples I knew who are now divorced, they could have pulled through and found one another in newer and deeper ways. Everyone I know who pulled through the tough years is better for it, and closer than ever.

Of course I'm not suggesting its this one thing. Fundamentally, it's the attitude with which you enter the whole enterprise of marriage, and that attitude is exemplified in a hundred different ways. Some are more important than others.

Personally, I couldn't imagine a marriage that was otherwise, though of course I know the smart set think an ANC is essential. I am just attesting to the first-hand experience that venturing everything brings it rewards in the relationship, because it says in a very concrete way that everything (and everyone) else is secondary.

 

[fastesthamster]

Sure. But it all depends how high you rank finances. In the early days you might think nothing of marrying with ANC, but inevitably, as living happens, pressures come and the relationship takes strain, and, well, these conditional reservations have a way of taking higher precedence, and this can (and often does) subtly undermine the commitment to mutuality. I've seen it happen so often. Besides, most people I know married with ANCs, and not in a single case was it used to protect one spouse in the face of insolvency -

The plural of anecdote is not data. I'm sorry, but your own personal examples of how ANCs are used does not invalidate the very real financial risk that getting married in community of property poses. Especially if you are a small business owner, or run into debt problems.

This is not a question of commitment, it is the most rational decision to make when approaching your finances.

it was always used to get out as much stuff as possible when the marriage imploded.

Then it was being used incorrectly. My wife and I have out of community with accrual, nothing excluded except inheritance (for her sake, not my own). Should we part ways the estates are shared 50/50. There is no way it can be used to get as much stuff as possible. It is the fairest solution as the marriage is a partnership.

In my own view that ANC was a factor in making the implosion bearable and this contributed to the collapse. If more was at stake for many couples I knew who are now divorced, they could have pulled through and found one another in newer and deeper ways. Everyone I know who pulled through the tough years is better for it, and closer than ever.

So fear should keep people together rather than love?

You are conflating two issues here, the contract, and the legal position of the two people involved. Forget the ANC, focus on this:
Out of community of property with accrual > in community of property
Do you agree with this, or not?

 

[SoulTax]

I must agree with the speedy rodent here. My wife and I are married out of community of property, with accrual. Almost identical to FastestHampster without the inheritance factor. We both had bits of furniture and stuff. We went in with nothing each, and have signed a contract to split everything 50/50. For both of us it's our first marriage.

I plan to open a business within a few years. Our family can be safe and secure in teh knowledge that even if the business flops, our home and our belongings cannot be tied in with the liquidation. We might be poor, but at least we still have a home.

This is not a personal dig at anyone that is married in Community. I just think that it shows a lack of financial foresight. It is not just about the foreseen possibilities of each person being financially reckless, or opening a business and it not going so well. It's also about the unseen implications that you are both seen as a single financial legal entity.

ANC with accrual is as much a protection for both parties during the marriage, as it is for both parties at the end of the marriage. Personally we made a contract to give us all the protection that the ANC marriage provides each of us individually, during marriage. While still maintaining the best part of "CoP" which is that regardless of who is the main breadwinner, we each own everything 50/50 during the marriage and if it all goes tits up.

Being married in community of property these days is financially irresponsible to your partner and your children. In CoP might be the traditional way to get married. But if history has shown us one thing, it's that tradition is not always good and that newer and better things always come along to replace them. CoP is idealistic tosh. You can still marry with the same amount of love and devotion, but still remain 2 separate legal entities.

 

[noxibox]

If you're going in with pre-existing assets you're definitely going to want to protect those. You may well end up having to support the deadbeat for the rest of your or their life after you get divorced, so no reason to also let them take half of everything you built up before getting married.

It will no doubt end in arguments on this forum, but my curiosity persists. People are willing to share everything .... and if/when it ends, they get all stingy and scrooge-like and do their best to screw the other person when it comes to the money issues.

Just because I'm willing to let someone make use of what I own does not mean they can have it.

Edit: So why not be "practical" and have an ANC (antenuptial contract)? Because for us the calamity of the marriage ending would be far worse than mere bits of property, even if it's millions. We risked everything. And we still do. That's one of the nicest thing to know about our marriage - everything is at stake.

True, why not make it a double calamity. Not only emotionally devastated from the breakup, but wiped out financially too.

I've seen it happen so often. Besides, most people I know married with ANCs, and not in a single case was it used to protect one spouse in the face of insolvency - it was always used to get out as much stuff as possible when the marriage imploded.

Sounds exactly like community of property. Every marriage I've ever seen based on community of property the partner that came in poorer has sought to screw over the other party as much as possible when it came to an end. Usually taking half of everything and expecting to be supported financially for the rest of their lives.

In my own view that ANC was a factor in making the implosion bearable and this contributed to the collapse. If more was at stake for many couples I knew who are now divorced, they could have pulled through and found one another in newer and deeper ways.

Or simply put up with the raving psycho rather than lose everything they worked for. Seen lots of marriages that should simply be ended, but they'll stick it out, horrible as it all is, because of the financial damage they'll suffer due to choosing community of property.