Pro SA!

Well we've just swapped one government for the other, its only the other way round. The only difference is we (currently) aren't being forced out of our homes etc etc
 
Fudzy said:
Geez, no wonder your medicated. I'm really sorry those things happened you Leitmotif. Your experiencing justify the bad rap, its just so often you hear of people generalizing from something they read in a newspaper.
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Hey, I'm not medicated... would never be allowed to touch a firearm if I was. :)

Thing is, the bad rap isn't all that unjustified. I regularly stay in a friend's place when he goes overseas with his wife, because his house was robbed twice last year and the year before while he was overseas. His hobby is travelling, and he has a work schedule which takes him out oft the country a lot. This is someone who has had to make arrangements to protect what he has earned, because of an undeniable reality.

Newspapers are handy to point out sky high examples, but regardless the experience on the ground is out there.
 
Yeah but newspapers seldom report on anything positive. The "If it bleeds, it leads" mentality. If I just quoted newspaper stories to every foreigner I met I'd be lying about how I feel about this country, I won't deny its got its problems but there is alot still good about this place and we wont make it any better by just bleating on about the negative things.
 
I'd stop "bleating" if our government showed results. It's the basic foundation of the modern police philosophy, which seems to have escaped our governmental representatives and even most of the decision-makers in the police themselves.

* The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
* The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.
* Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
* The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
* Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
* Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.
* Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
* Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
* The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.
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That last one is important. It's the very reason why officials and the public constantly disagree on crime. People are interested in results, not ministers and MECs making plans and coming up with cute names like "Operation Iron Fist".



- Leit the super-sheep™ :D
 
But don't you see bleating wont show results? Form an action group, go to the media and stand outside parliament, make your feelings heard by the people that can make a change.

The TAG guys managed to raise R50k to publish an ad to make people aware of the telecommunication problems, a big corporate tried to do a similar thing to highlight the crime but failed due to 'red tape'. Why cant you guys that have problems do something different?
 
South Africans are by and large apathetic whingers. I'm going to duck into my favourite subject here, so please be patient with my choice of example.

SA gun owners whine and whinge about the new gun laws, and then talk about how they're going to hide their guns or report them stolen rather than support SAGA or GOSA, who are fighting the laws. One story was of a guy who asked what he was going to physically get back for his (small) membership donation.

The moral is that SAfricans don't seem to want to tangibly support anything when they feel entitled to it, and they do feel entitled to crime protection.

Most of the crime whingers won't join the reservists or CPFs because of how "it's all corrupt" and "why should I have to". The other side must be noted as well - the CPFs are in places more concerned with propagandizing than they are with noting the members' concerns about crime and implementing ideas on how to deal with it.

TAG received support from a forum where there was already a large and coherent base of disgruntled people looking for a meaningful way to put their money where their mouth is. I donated, as did a lot of other people, but I never would have heard about TAG if it wasn't for the pervasive nature of MyAdsl. You need a starting point, and no anti-crime organisation has thus far achieved the profile or recognition of MyAdsl. The political parties won't touch the issue for fear of it interfering with their own agendas.

Even looking at the success of the TAG campaign, what tangible result has it seen, other than Telkom spending a little more on advertising lately? The people in power in this government are bound and determined not to listen and never to act. They have the media access and they have the budget.
 
Maybe go more viral than newspaper media? I'm not saying one of those cheesy e-mail that ask you to add your name to the bottom of a list but something that the likes of LaughItOff would be proud of.
 
people living behind 10 foot high walls, razor wire, and electric fences,
with panic buttons ready to call in armed militia's - because the police
may not arrive if/when the murderers burst in, shouldn't be trying to talk about anything 'positive' in their situation - that's delusional psychosis.
:P
 
Nice one there JK, I haven't read the whole article yet but from the little I did read and a few replies it seems people are so freakin' unhappy with their lives that they can only think negatively and so only can open their mouths to bad mouth SA...Well I've got class now so I gotta go but I'll be sure to read the full thing later.
 
I think they should be blacklisted from buying World Cup 2010 tickets as punishment for spewing k@k about SA every chance they get....when things go wrong they won't try to help and when things go right they just wanna enjoy...it's flippin' hypocracy!!
 
Very nice speech. Unfortunately, the thread is going to degenerate into rantings about crime about in SA.
 
Fudzy said:
But don't you see bleating wont show results? Form an action group, go to the media and stand outside parliament, make your feelings heard by the people that can make a change.

The TAG guys managed to raise R50k to publish an ad to make people aware of the telecommunication problems, a big corporate tried to do a similar thing to highlight the crime but failed due to 'red tape'. Why cant you guys that have problems do something different?
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Man, THEY would call that bleating too, and thats just what it would be...

Understand?

If we take action it would be called vigilantism. So i dont know what you are really suggesting WE do...
 
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Leitmotif said:
South Africans are by and large apathetic whingers. I'm going to duck into my favourite subject here, so please be patient with my choice of example.

SA gun owners whine and whinge about the new gun laws, and then talk about how they're going to hide their guns or report them stolen rather than support SAGA or GOSA, who are fighting the laws. One story was of a guy who asked what he was going to physically get back for his (small) membership donation.

The moral is that SAfricans don't seem to want to tangibly support anything when they feel entitled to it, and they do feel entitled to crime protection.

Most of the crime whingers won't join the reservists or CPFs because of how "it's all corrupt" and "why should I have to". The other side must be noted as well - the CPFs are in places more concerned with propagandizing than they are with noting the members' concerns about crime and implementing ideas on how to deal with it.

TAG received support from a forum where there was already a large and coherent base of disgruntled people looking for a meaningful way to put their money where their mouth is. I donated, as did a lot of other people, but I never would have heard about TAG if it wasn't for the pervasive nature of MyAdsl. You need a starting point, and no anti-crime organisation has thus far achieved the profile or recognition of MyAdsl. The political parties won't touch the issue for fear of it interfering with their own agendas.

Even looking at the success of the TAG campaign, what tangible result has it seen, other than Telkom spending a little more on advertising lately? The people in power in this government are bound and determined not to listen and never to act. They have the media access and they have the budget.
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I don't own a gun, but even so I have to question the results of all the guns being taken and put of order. You think criminals will ever have a shortage of guns, when we have 1000's of illegal immigrants that come and go as they choose?

I don't understand your post as a whole. On one side you say people should support initiatives, but you can't actually achieve anything with it. Or are you saying that we should support the government and ignore their failures?

I'm not going to rant over crime that much, but like someone has already said: no matter how many good things there are in life, it doesn't seem all that great when a relative was murdered. Green grass, animals, wine, food, etc won't bring them back.
 
Tanarri said:
I don't own a gun, but even so I have to question the results of all the guns being taken and put of order. You think criminals will ever have a shortage of guns, when we have 1000's of illegal immigrants that come and go as they choose?

I don't understand your post as a whole. On one side you say people should support initiatives, but you can't actually achieve anything with it. Or are you saying that we should support the government and ignore their failures?
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Okay, since gun control is my subject of choice, I can't resist: you're spot on. Gun control controls only the guns in the hands of those inclined to obey the law of the land. Remember, kids: it's not about guns, it's about control.

My point is that by and large most south africans, and especially white south africans, are apathetic. They won't even support people who will fight for them. Another example: with just R10 from every gun owner in SA we could challenge the CFR in the constitutional court under a number of grounds. Yet there are clubs with literally hundreds of thousands in their funds that would rather wait and let someone else sort it out without donating a cent.

Basically, SAfricans don't like to kick up a fuss. They just want someone to just solve the problem, without any inconvenience or effort on their part. This sort of general apathy is what politicians count on, and it is why they can safely ignore the voices of the people they supposedly represent. It doesn't help that, as there is no direct accountability, there is no solid motivation for anyone at the top to change anything as long as they're comfortable.
 
Leitmotif said:
I'd stop "bleating" if our government showed results.
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Fsck, I'd be happy if they just acknowledged the situation and started working on improving things, as opposed to spin doctoring everything to sound as if it's either great or apartheid's fault.
 
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