All great businesses e.g. Google started with an idea with great uncertainties and great risk. I am not saying I am like Larry Page, Steve Jobs or Bill but I believe in my product as they did in theirs.
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: What's the most interesting small town you've visited in South Africa?
Programmers/Designers Needed!
- Thread starter Vendetta
- Start date
All great businesses e.g. Google started with an idea with great uncertainties and great risk. I am not saying I am like Larry Page, Steve Jobs or Bill but I believe in my product as they did in theirs.
And they also started with developers doing months of work. Those same developers who did months of work, coincidentally probably came up with the idea. I think they only added a business person later. The developers took all the risk, and they got the rewards.
Why is this so hard to understand? Who is taking a bigger risk here - you, who has nothing more to do about this until it is finished, or a developer who would have to quit his job to get this done in a reasonable time frame? And because you wont pay him, there is a good chance he will lose money by doing this for you.
Can't you get a load from the bank? Perhaps pay someone full time for 2 months.
Are you prepared to take a financial risk?
Yeah, I fully agree with Ancalagon, an 'amazing idea that just need some free development' isn't gonna fly with most developers here. Firstly, unemployed developers are hard to come by. Secondly, if you did manage to find one, they'll be stressing for quick cash, not cash 6 months down the line - that doesn't put food on the table now. Thirdly, an employed developer can do this in his spare time, but it'll be just that - in his/her spare time prolonging the project even further.
And however long you think its gonna take, double/triple that, and you have a realistic timeline too.
I guess a developer in his spare time could take this on...but he'll want to find out more about the research and prospects under your NDA. Unfortunately for you, you've just signed up to this site, so people generally look at whatever you post with a very critical outlook. If you had been here a while, things would be a LOT easier for you.
Hell, its worth a shot though! I myself am trying all sorts of personal projects, and its hellish hard work. I wish you the most of luck.
And however long you think its gonna take, double/triple that, and you have a realistic timeline too.
I guess a developer in his spare time could take this on...but he'll want to find out more about the research and prospects under your NDA. Unfortunately for you, you've just signed up to this site, so people generally look at whatever you post with a very critical outlook. If you had been here a while, things would be a LOT easier for you.
Hell, its worth a shot though! I myself am trying all sorts of personal projects, and its hellish hard work. I wish you the most of luck.
@ Ancalagon: I actually do understand what you’re on about. I do get it but in the time you went on about guarantees and security for developers I have had 1 positive comment on this post and 2 programmers interested. So there are developers out there that are willing to take risks.
Also I did say it was a sideline project. In no means will I ever expect any person to quit his job if I am not going to pay him for it.
Also I did say it was a sideline project. In no means will I ever expect any person to quit his job if I am not going to pay him for it.
Last edited:
You name 3 people who made it, against how many people who failed? Hundreds of thousands who also believed in their product and its success.
You claim to have investors. Well.... get the cash rolling if you have "investors".
frikkie6000
Expert Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,043
- Reaction score
- 0
This can not be considered a risk sorry being harsh but whoever is keen to do this is absolutely brain dead unless they just gonna take your idea and make it theirs in this case I think that's what will happen
Bar0n
Executive Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 5,552
- Reaction score
- 7
Listen to this man. He knows what he's talking about.
Last edited:
I'd think you would be more reluctant to join such an endeavor if you could develop.
(not bashing the op by that statement)
murraybiscuit
Executive Member
You expect a bank to give a loan to someone out of work with a software concept thats 'guaranteed' to work?
Rather pay a developer to do a poc, show investors and don't expect much cash in return. An investor isn't going to bat an eyelid if you don't have a track record of execution and only have an idea to bring to the party.
Stefanmuller
Expert Member
It is always a problem to have an idea, but not the skills to develop it, nor the money. But that does not mean it is not a great and viable idea. You are also in a situation where you almost have to give out your secret before someone will buy into the idea, so a confidentiality agreement should be in place. Exciting stuff...I think in IT stuff you kind of need a young developer genius who does not have a lot to loose.
Sent from my HTC Hero using MyBroadband Android App
Sent from my HTC Hero using MyBroadband Android App
riverdusty
Senior Member
You could always approch a university and see if their computer science department would be interested in your idea as a 4th year project or something along those lines.
Our company has done this several times with outstanding results. Give it a try.
Our company has done this several times with outstanding results. Give it a try.
haha went on this link this morning and I'm still reading, what an epic site!! haven't seen anything this funny in a while...
+1000 to Messugga
stevenv
Expert Member
Sorry, I'll also have to decline a theoretical future paycheck.
GreGorGy
BULLSFAN
Good point - if it will take a month, put me up in Cape Town and keep me in beer and food for that month and we got a deal.
SlinkyMike
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 10,402
- Reaction score
- 5,731
The responses from devs in this thread are not unusual. Sadly however, they are indicative of the fundamental problem with young professionals in our country.
I'm sure that most if not all of the devs who have responded in this thread will feel some level (I'm willing to stick my neck out and say: probably a high degree in many cases) of dissatisfaction with their current working conditions.
Dissatisfaction is the zygote of change, without it everything stays the same. When you become dissatisfied, your heart is telling you to take action, you should learn to listen instead of shouting it down.
What is downright odd is that disproportionate number of of those same people are willing to take some risk and make some effort toward changing that situation.
The fact is that without risk there is no reward. Without effort nothing changes and so you stay in your 'just this side of uncomfortable' position, you take your 5-6% annual increase, you eat schit from some 'Afrikaans box' line manager and you just plod along... perpetuating existence.
This is not Life!
Here comes a guy (the OP) offering you the possibility of change. He has an idea, he wants to perform, along with anyone who is willing and able to take part in it, that most fundamentally creative of all things in the human spectrum of existence: building something that was not there before, through the power of will.
How is that a poor proposition? What is it about the Saffer psyche that makes us recoil so at this prospect?
All you need to do is take the small step of using your skillset and talents for a chellenging project that YOU decide to be involved in (not some BRS handed down from on high) and sacrifice some gaming/surfing/whatever time to what MAY JUST become a life changing project... but you throw it back in his face, citing the exact set of values and low expectations that keep you in your current situation.
I guess it boils down to where you fall on that entrpreneurial spectrum, are you open to the possibility of the extraordinary or are you comitted to the ordinary?
I'd like to know your answers but consider this: accepting a salary is accepting an artificial limitation on your earning potential, it's like a cage: safe inside and nothing can come in and harm you but the price of that safety is never stepping out, never learning what you may TRULY be capable of. To some, THAT is a terribly poor proposition, THAT is a terrible risk they are unwilling to live with...
I want to ask each and every one of the devs who have responded with venom to the OP in this thread to consider something: is it possible that your aggravation at the proposition put forth by the OP is perhaps a feeling of personal failure? The whole: 'dev does all the work so why should anyone else benefit?' Line is tired an not even remotely based in sense - if devs were able to perform all of the taks necessary to launch a succesful startup/product thewn WTF don't they?
You need someone with vision, leadership skills, a silky toungued champion of your cause just as much as you need a great idea and just as much as you need brilliant and innovative execution (FYI: that's where you talented devs come in) ...to assert that you could do all of this yourself is, quite simply, hollow noise in the absence of ACTUALLY HAVING DONE IT.
Accept that.
Get off your pedestal, commit yourself to working on change in terms of your narrow mindset (pay my hours or I'll waste them surfing pron) and commit to the possibility of the extraordinary and I sincerely believe that your life will, over time become one of deeper purpose and meaning.
Do you want to spend your days enriching the person who pays your salary or would you like to forge a new path, one that is uniquley yours, one that may well enrich you and your family for generations whilst also adding depth and meaning to those hours you so vehemently demand be paid?
@OP: clearly - we do not have a very strong entreneurial spirit amongst the IT professionals in SA.
Can I ask you to help change that? Get involved... if you are in the Cape we are currently in the midst of the Cape Town Entrepreneurship Week (http://www.capetownpartnership.co.za/cape-town-is-open-for-business/#more-6875) there is also an initiative called The Silicon Cape (http://www.siliconcape.com/) that is focused on creating a 'Silicon Valley' like startup scene right here in the Cape.
You may find the resources that in your mind you need for this project, you may find that your project pivots somewhat from the form it currently holds... either way: the more involvement the better, for everyone.
Furthermore: I think you deserve a frikking round of applause for the initiative you have shown in posting this thread - MORE LIKE THIS YOU LOOKERS ON!
Don't allow the negative responses here to dissuade you... if you are half the entrepreneur that you seem to be then this won't really be an issue
Keep trying to find developers who are willing to commit the to the possibility of the extraordinary... they are out there.
I'm sure that most if not all of the devs who have responded in this thread will feel some level (I'm willing to stick my neck out and say: probably a high degree in many cases) of dissatisfaction with their current working conditions.
Dissatisfaction is the zygote of change, without it everything stays the same. When you become dissatisfied, your heart is telling you to take action, you should learn to listen instead of shouting it down.
What is downright odd is that disproportionate number of of those same people are willing to take some risk and make some effort toward changing that situation.
The fact is that without risk there is no reward. Without effort nothing changes and so you stay in your 'just this side of uncomfortable' position, you take your 5-6% annual increase, you eat schit from some 'Afrikaans box' line manager and you just plod along... perpetuating existence.
This is not Life!
Here comes a guy (the OP) offering you the possibility of change. He has an idea, he wants to perform, along with anyone who is willing and able to take part in it, that most fundamentally creative of all things in the human spectrum of existence: building something that was not there before, through the power of will.
How is that a poor proposition? What is it about the Saffer psyche that makes us recoil so at this prospect?
All you need to do is take the small step of using your skillset and talents for a chellenging project that YOU decide to be involved in (not some BRS handed down from on high) and sacrifice some gaming/surfing/whatever time to what MAY JUST become a life changing project... but you throw it back in his face, citing the exact set of values and low expectations that keep you in your current situation.
I guess it boils down to where you fall on that entrpreneurial spectrum, are you open to the possibility of the extraordinary or are you comitted to the ordinary?
I'd like to know your answers but consider this: accepting a salary is accepting an artificial limitation on your earning potential, it's like a cage: safe inside and nothing can come in and harm you but the price of that safety is never stepping out, never learning what you may TRULY be capable of. To some, THAT is a terribly poor proposition, THAT is a terrible risk they are unwilling to live with...
I want to ask each and every one of the devs who have responded with venom to the OP in this thread to consider something: is it possible that your aggravation at the proposition put forth by the OP is perhaps a feeling of personal failure? The whole: 'dev does all the work so why should anyone else benefit?' Line is tired an not even remotely based in sense - if devs were able to perform all of the taks necessary to launch a succesful startup/product thewn WTF don't they?
You need someone with vision, leadership skills, a silky toungued champion of your cause just as much as you need a great idea and just as much as you need brilliant and innovative execution (FYI: that's where you talented devs come in) ...to assert that you could do all of this yourself is, quite simply, hollow noise in the absence of ACTUALLY HAVING DONE IT.
Accept that.
Get off your pedestal, commit yourself to working on change in terms of your narrow mindset (pay my hours or I'll waste them surfing pron) and commit to the possibility of the extraordinary and I sincerely believe that your life will, over time become one of deeper purpose and meaning.
Do you want to spend your days enriching the person who pays your salary or would you like to forge a new path, one that is uniquley yours, one that may well enrich you and your family for generations whilst also adding depth and meaning to those hours you so vehemently demand be paid?
@OP: clearly - we do not have a very strong entreneurial spirit amongst the IT professionals in SA.
Can I ask you to help change that? Get involved... if you are in the Cape we are currently in the midst of the Cape Town Entrepreneurship Week (http://www.capetownpartnership.co.za/cape-town-is-open-for-business/#more-6875) there is also an initiative called The Silicon Cape (http://www.siliconcape.com/) that is focused on creating a 'Silicon Valley' like startup scene right here in the Cape.
You may find the resources that in your mind you need for this project, you may find that your project pivots somewhat from the form it currently holds... either way: the more involvement the better, for everyone.
Furthermore: I think you deserve a frikking round of applause for the initiative you have shown in posting this thread - MORE LIKE THIS YOU LOOKERS ON!
Don't allow the negative responses here to dissuade you... if you are half the entrepreneur that you seem to be then this won't really be an issue
Keep trying to find developers who are willing to commit the to the possibility of the extraordinary... they are out there.
I actually was going to respond to individual points in your post but there is too much of it.
First, I'm not helping out because I'm currently engaged in my own project which I work on after hours. I'm writing a game which I plan to form a company to release to Android and PC (runs on Java so it will run on Linux, Windows and Mac - if Steve Jobs' ghost approves). Even if I wanted to help, I dont have the time.
Second, you say that people who say no to this are just going to keep receiving orders from up top instead of starting their own business, but then, how is this different? I would still be taking orders and ideas from him, and in return he offers shares in the project. Shares. Ie maybe 10%, maybe 40%, who knows?
But you know why I'm most pessimistic? Because I used to do EXACTLY what this guy did here - post an idea that I dont have the skills or finance to develop, and hope someone else is keen. That is not taking ownership of my destiny or vision, that is not forging a new path, that is hoping someone else will do all the hard work while I provide the "vision".
So dont come here and say everyone who turns this down likes life the way it is and likes being a monkey in a cage. We dont. We've just had enough experience to know how much work it takes to get a project off the ground, and to know that what this guy is asking for and offering is completely unreasonable. So you're making a strawman to say those not interested are caged animals.
EDIT: In particular...
Go tell Notch he doesnt have the vision or charisma to make Minecraft succeed. And go back in time and tell Linus Torvalds not to bother - no one will ever use his Linux. And also go back in time and tell Larry Page and Sergey Brin to not bother with starting Google - I mean they can just use Yahoo or whatever. Larry Page and Sergey Brin are both computer scientists and thus NERDS in case you havent figured out, and they, and no one else, founded Google. Even Eric Schmidt wrote software - he wrote lex!
All software developers, all made it somehow. For a tech startup, marketers are less valuable than developers. Right now, he needs a product to sell. No way around that.
Last edited:
GreGorGy
BULLSFAN
Young? Mmmm - you raise a few valid observations but make one or two assumptions that are not necessarily correct. As a young professional, I joined a startup because they needed a web developer. Promises were made. It was 1996.
Those promises were broken, not only by the company but indeed the industry. The Dot really bombed. If I was 20 again and lived in Cape Town, I actually would take the OP up but he has restricted himself geographically (obviously for acceptable reasons) to a city that simply fails to show real entrepreneurial spirit historically.
I do hope some younger AND OLDER devs with time on their hands (like you say, wasted on fruitless pursuits) at least take time out to think about the proposal. To investigate the potential. To dismiss it if it sounds like crap or to embrace it if they think they can make it work. I just think that the views expressed here indicate more the suspicion of a generation of devs that have heard it all before than a lack of entrepreneurial spirit.
And trust me, we have heard it all before.