Public rejects e-tolls: OUTA

And we'll continue to do so. Up yours Sanral and up yours ANC...
 
Best of all is .. a stand against e-tolling is a stand against the ANC's endemic corruption.

We all can like to be little angels with little white wings and sparkling halo's by not actually doing anything.
 
DJ... said:
And we'll continue to do so. Up yours Sanral and up yours ANC...
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Ditto and hopefully COSATU will continue to tell Zuma where he can put his short spear because we are all tired of being shafted by Zuma's corruption of government.
 
Should the money for the "new/improved" roads not come from the taxes we allready pay? Why then when there is a improvement should we need to pay extra for it?
Are the tax money for the roads just to maintain the current ones? So we can (according to their logic) only get new roads if they are toll roads or at the very least obtain aditional extra funding for them?
 
cymax said:
Should the money for the "new/improved" roads not come from the taxes we allready pay? Why then when there is a improvement should we need to pay extra for it?
Are the tax money for the roads just to maintain the current ones? So we can (according to their logic) only get new roads if they are toll roads or at the very least obtain aditional extra funding for them?
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This is an excellent question and one that has yet to be answered by SANRAL and the government.

Ever since these highways were built we have been paying taxes towards their maintenance and upkeep.

1) You pay a Fuel Levy tax.
2) You pay vehicle License fees.
3) You pay general PAYE tax.
4) You pay VAT.

A portion of all of the above goes to road maintenance. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THAT MONEY?
We are talking about Billions of Rands over many years. All gone... disappeared.

And soon you will also be paying a levy on new tyres that you buy. Supposedly a "Recycling Fee".
Do you trust the government to actually recycle the tyres properly?
Do you actually believe that all the money from the recycling levy will go to recycling?
 
Garyvdh said:
This is an excellent question and one that has yet to be answered by SANRAL and the government.

Ever since these highways were built we have been paying taxes towards their maintenance and upkeep.

1) You pay a Fuel Levy tax.
2) You pay vehicle License fees.
3) You pay general PAYE tax.
4) You pay VAT.

A portion of all of the above goes to road maintenance. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THAT MONEY?
We are talking about Billions of Rands over many years. All gone... disappeared.

And soon you will also be paying a levy on new tyres that you buy. Supposedly a "Recycling Fee".
Do you trust the government to actually recycle the tyres properly?
Do you actually believe that all the money from the recycling levy will go to recycling?
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Don't forget that these national highways also have had toll gates that were supposedly for their upkeep right? This is a point I fail to grasp to be honest, between Johannesburg and Pretoria there is a toll (Grasmere Plaza) which has been filtering traffic for years for people from the Vaal/Free State/Southern South Africa to the one in PTA. That toll every single year has gone up in price even though the roads remained the same (when I was in highschool back in 03 I think they were around R4, now around R7-R8 for small vehicles). What has this money been doing or what is its purpose? We have been paying huge amounts of money in taxes within car and drivers licenCes, fuel levies etc (which were taxes specifically made for motorists and motor related maintenance) and yet this again? GTFOH! Its like paying your phone bill, and now because Voda/Cell C/MTN decided because they didn't upgrade their towers, on top of your contract you will be paying an additional R5 for "tower upkeep". WTF is this BS:mad:
 
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cymax said:
Should the money for the "new/improved" roads not come from the taxes we allready pay? Why then when there is a improvement should we need to pay extra for it?
Are the tax money for the roads just to maintain the current ones? So we can (according to their logic) only get new roads if they are toll roads or at the very least obtain aditional extra funding for them?
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Because we have an existing road maintenance backlog to the tune of R9bn and diverting cash towards this infrastructure upgrade would move that figure to around R50bn in one fell swoop. All in all it is because of poor governance and planning, once again.

But to be fair, infrastructure upgrades are hardly ever paid for, in any country, from the fiscus. They're paid for historically in nearly every country I've looked at with a fuel levy, but they're all changing their focus to MBUF recovery-based programmes. The real issue is that these upgrades have been for new roads though - not for re-surfacing and adding an extra lane here and there as we're doing...
 
Garyvdh said:
A portion of all of the above goes to road maintenance. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THAT MONEY?
We are talking about Billions of Rands over many years. All gone... disappeared.
Click to expand...

What happened to the cash is a good one. I can't find the detail right now but I know for a fact that a few years ago there was rife corruption identified in the road maintenance fund - not sure what transpired thereafter. Unfortunately there is an existing R9bn backlog in road maintenance. The other issue is that this project was deemed an infrastructure upgrade and not general maintenance. I still maintain it was the latter, but infrastructure upgrades are not paid for with maintenance funds...
 
ThinkCentre said:
Government does not give two hoots if we approve! They WILL go ahead irrespective of what we say! There might just be something in there for them!
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IIRC, SANRAL have disclosed information on something like nine of the thirty three contractors involved... Chancellor House has links to at least two of the nine.
 
DJ... said:
What happened to the cash is a good one. I can't find the detail right now but I know for a fact that a few years ago there was rife corruption identified in the road maintenance fund - not sure what transpired thereafter. Unfortunately there is an existing R9bn backlog in road maintenance. The other issue is that this project was deemed an infrastructure upgrade and not general maintenance. I still maintain it was the latter, but infrastructure upgrades are not paid for with maintenance funds...
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Ja, I agree.... but we all know that there was no maintenance going on for decades prior to the upgrades.
 
Garyvdh said:
Ja, I agree.... but we all know that there was no maintenance going on for decades prior to the upgrades.
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For the most part, that's true. Some of the class 1 roads were re-surfaced just a few years ago though - I recall going through delay after delay of construction and this was before the e-toll project began. They then went and did it again with the e-toll project. Why? I have no idea but I think we all have our suspicions there...
 
All protests are being ignored.
The gantries need to be destroyed.
 
I have it on good authority that Government indeed does not care about what people say. They just want this process out of the way as fast as they can so they can start implementing the system and generate an income. They do in fact believe that there will be sufficient road users to generate an income, BUT also, if this system does not generate the required income (which I am not sure what their target it), they will implement the following two things:

1. An increase of the fees, by as much as 100%.
2. In addition to the fees, a petrol levy will be implemented within the first few weeks if people try to bypass the system. (Current talks, depending on the situation, may be up to R1 per litre)

Also, for those who do not believe in conspiracy theories: The right judges has already been identified to sit in on the upcoming hearings in the constitutional court. The results also has been determined, and believe me it does not look good for Gauteng residents or for the rest of the country for that matter.

So, think about it, as this is the reality we will have to face soon.
 
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Mouse said:
All protests are being ignored.
The gantries need to be destroyed.
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If we want the toll system to be delayed, this is what is required. It will only be done one or 2 times, after which permanent armed guarding measures will be in place.
 
House said:
I have it on good authority that Government indeed does not care about what people say. They just want this process out of the way as fast as they can so they can start implementing the system and generate an income. They do in fact believe that there will be sufficient road users to generate an income, BUT also, if this system does not generate the required income (which I am not sure what their target it), they will implement the following two things:

1. An increase of the fees, by as much as 100%.
2. In addition to the fees, a petrol levy will be implemented within the first few weeks if people try to bypass the system. (Current talks, depending on the situation, may be up to R1 per litre)

Also, for those who do not believe in conspiracy theories: The right judges has already been identified to sit in on the upcoming hearings in the constitutional court. The results also has been determined, and believe me it does not look good for Gauteng residents or for the rest of the country for that matter.

So, think about it, as this is the reality we will have to face soon.
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Bull**** on the levy. That would be disastrous for the economy.
 
Messugga said:
Bull**** on the levy. That would be disastrous for the economy.
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Like the government understand that.

This could very well be more FUD and propaganda designed to scare us into line.
 
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