Race row over baboon essay

czc said:
Me thinks the Academics doth protest too much...
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These "enlightened intellectuals" have to find something to do....


moggie said:
I read the article and the racial association is a tad tenuous.

Calling a person of colour a baboon/monkey/ape to his face would definitely be a racist remark!
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and what about drawing a black individual as a baboon/monkey/ape in a cartoon?
 
Alan said:
These "enlightened intellectuals" have to find something to do....

and what about drawing a black individual as a baboon/monkey/ape in a cartoon?
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Racist. Toyota vs Cronje.

http://books.google.co.za/books?id=...esnum=9&ved=0CC0Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.worklaw.co.za/Tour/TourFiles/Casesub/C14.ASP

Cronje v Toyota Manufacturing (2001) 21 ILJ 735 (CCMA); (2002) 23 ILJ 1563 (LC)

Principle:

Dismissal may be substantively fair where an employee distributes racist e-mail in contravention of the employer’s e-mail usage code.

Facts:

The employee was dismissed for distributing by email a racist cartoon depicting a gorilla with President Mugabe’s head transposed on it. The cartoon was widely circulated and upset the company’s black staff, of whom there were 3 500. Race and race sensitivity were important in the company and its email policy prohibited the distribution of racist messages. The Labour Court agreed with the CCMA commissioner that the cartoon was racist and inflammatory in the context in which it was distributed. The court was satisfied that dismissal was the appropriate sanction.

Extract from the award:

The fact of the offensive racist stereotype associating black people with apes exists is not disputed. This is a matter of deep moral, social and cultural sensitivity to black people and this sort of offensive racial stereotyping is not by any means limited to black people.
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http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=vn20090722041330691C233119

Cleaner wins battle over baboon slur
July 22 2009 at 04:21AM

By Hendrick Mphande

A cleaner at a court here has won a David and Goliath battle against a veteran city magistrate who called him a baboon.

Khayalethu Geleba was on Tuesday awarded R4 500 by the Equality Court and magistrate Johan Herselman now faces disciplinary action and possible criminal charges.

On September 16, 2008, Herselman was found guilty of using hate speech when he referred to Geleba as a baboon.

In addition to the fine, the Equality Court on Tuesday recommended that the findings against Herselman be forwarded to the Magistrate's Commission in Pretoria for a decision on whether to institute disciplinary action against the magistrate.

In addition the findings must be forwarded to the director of public prosecutions for a consideration for criminal proceedings.

Speaking shortly after the verdict, Geleba said he was happy with the outcome.

"The verdict will teach Herselman a lesson to refrain from looking down on blacks as 'baboon' every time they appear before him in his court," he said.

Bloemfontein chief magistrate Mziwonke Hinxa presided over the hearing.

"The respondent in this matter is a magistrate who at all material times is expected to uphold and promote the value of human rights. In my view his utterances failed to promote this," Hinxa told the court.

At the time of the offence in January 2006 Geleba was employed by the Department of Public Works as a cleaner at the North End court here.

The evidence was that Geleba and a co-worker, identified only as Swartbooi, were trying to move a table into an office when the pair accidentally scratched a door.

It was at this stage that Herselman, who came up from behind, shouted three times at Geleba who was referred to as a baboon.

Although two people were pushing the table, the tirades were directed at Geleba and not at his coloured colleague.

Herselman plans to appeal against the findings.
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eltherza said:
Seems that calling someone a baboon get more focus than xenophobic violence... horribly ironic...
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The worst part is that RW Johnson did not even do so directly but merely loosely hinted at it in an essay... yet the current xenophobic violence is brushed off as "normal" criminal attacks.

What the hell is "normal" crime????
 
moggie said:
I read the article and the racial association is a tad tenuous.

Calling a person of colour a baboon/monkey/ape to his face would definitely be a racist remark!
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There are a few Afrikaans figures of speech which contain references to monkeys,baboons etc

all of which imply stupidity and not race.

I myself and many other regularly use these when referring to idiots of all races.
 
perhaps - it doesnt change the fact that the figure of speech exists and it does so completely independently of race.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is not outside the realm of possibility that when someone refers to someone else as a "aap", "bobbejaan" or somesuch, thats he's doing it in the context of his mother language and intends the meaning to be as he has understood it his whole life


Also, have read the act- be so kind as to point out the section you are referring to?
 
thatdamnJoe said:
Also, have read the act- be so kind as to point out the section you are referring to?
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I know it is tough, having been raised in a very bi-lingual household and having friends from very different backgrounds and having been through the SANDF during the worst period of internal clashes, but that is all in the past... I have had to adjust and be more tolerant. No other option.

Chapter 2, para 7(a) and 10 (1). It is classified as racial discrimination and hate speech. See the previous links I posted with references to cases at the CCMA, Labour Court, Equality Court, etc.
 
Ah, I see
"7
Subject to section 6, no person may unfairly discriminate against any person on the ground of race, including-

a) the dissemination of any propaganda or idea, which propounds the racial superiority or inferiority of any person, including incitement to, or participation in, any form of racial violence;"

You would first have to establish the link ie that my reference to a baboon was aimed at your race and not your stupidity.

The cases you mentioned do not create precedent for calling a person a baboon equalling discrimination on grounds of race. The burden of proof in cases involving discrimination works as follows.

1. The person who has been discriminated against must show that there has been discrimination based on one of the prohibited grounds
2. The discriminator must prove that the discrimination was fair

I argue that in some contexts, the "baboon" would not be able to argue that the discrimination was based on the prohibited ground of race when it would actually be based on his perceived intelligence or rather lack of it.
 
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