RAW disadvantage

[vash87]

Off topic : Why do you need a 1D and a 7D?

well im saving up to buy a 7D but if i had the money i would get a 1D as well, because then i would feel awesome seriously though, i think if i ever got a full frame camera it would be nice to have a camera APS-C sensor as a back up, and for when i need a little bit of extra reach from my lenses.

 

[bwana]

well im saving up to buy a 7D but if i had the money i would get a 1D as well, because then i would feel awesome seriously though, i think if i ever got a full frame camera it would be nice to have a camera APS-C sensor as a back up, and for when i need a little bit of extra reach from my lenses.

For me full frame is more of a hinderance than a help. I'll stick with APS-C and APS-H until canon can speed up the frame rate to something closer to what the 7D is.

 

[AstroTurf]

Making me jealous, I have a 550D at work and a S1800 at home.

I really want a slr for home.

 

[noxibox]

would be nice to have a camera APS-C sensor as a back up, and for when i need a little bit of extra reach from my lenses.

You don't get extra reach.

 

[Dolby]

I also thought you got extra reach due to the crop factor?

 

[noxibox]

I also thought you got extra reach due to the crop factor?

No, you get the cropping of the longer lens, not the reach. This doesn't matter if you're only using your zoom for framing though.

 

[bwana]

Two images from 10MP sensors, one APS-C (1.6 crop) and one APS-H (1.3 crop) - both approx 3888 × 2592 pixels reduced to 800px but no cropping has taken place.

APS-C

APS-H

One looks larger than the other to me . . .

 

[noxibox]

Two images from 10MP sensors, one APS-C (1.6 crop) and one APS-H (1.3 crop) - both approx 3888 × 2592 pixels reduced to 800px but no cropping has taken place.

APS-C

APS-H

One looks larger than the other to me . . .

Correct, this is the illusion of reach. Once you crop the 1.3 image it should look exactly the same size.

On the other hand if you want to take a picture of something you need a 300mm lens to see you are going to need a 300mm lens no matter how small your sensor is.

 

[bwana]

I always find this crop factor giving you "reach" debate funny since basically everyone gets it wrong. Bwana is the first person I have ever seen who has given an actual usable example! By that I mean that the crop and full frame(or 1.3x crop) in this case are the exact same resolution(mp). It's the only time you do get "more reach" with a crop body. The reality is however completely different 99% of the time for one very simple reason. A Full Frame SLR ALWAYS has higher resolution than crop bodies made at the same time. This allows you to go and crop manually to get "more reach" from the full frame.

I'm not sure using time, or generations, is that good of a standard.

Correct, this is the illusion of reach. Once you crop the 1.3 image it should look exactly the same size.

I'm afraid not. Once you crop the image you're sacrificing pixels and that's really not the same thing. I was careful to use two cameras that shared the same number of MP even though they were on different sized sensors for this very reason.

 

[bwana]

My only aim was to illustrate that you get a very real magnification with [higher factor] crop sensors. The two models I used were the 400D and the 1Dmk3 but you could just as easily use the 40D instead of the 400D since they all shared similar pixel counts.

Anyway - full frame cameras are just way too slow to be of any practical use to me.

 

[jdt]

My only aim was to illustrate that you get a very real magnification with [higher factor] crop sensors. The two models I used were the 400D and the 1Dmk3 but you could just as easily use the 40D instead of the 400D since they all shared similar pixel counts.

Anyway - full frame cameras are just way too slow to be of any practical use to me.

How so ?? Unless u put slow lenses on them !

 

[jdt]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the frames per second they are capable of shooting.

1D 10fps
7D 8fps

5D MK II 3.9fps
1Ds MK III 5fps

The higher fps just gives you a better chance of capturing the moment in sport for example.

Ok but 1D is regarded as full frame (APS-H) also Nikon 3DS is full frame with similar fps performance. I think its wrong to generalize Full Frame cameras as slow. These are top professional cameras with matching performance in all aspects

 

[bwana]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the frames per second they are capable of shooting.

Yes, I was.

Ok but 1D is regarded as full frame (APS-H) also Nikon 3DS is full frame with similar fps performance. I think its wrong to generalize Full Frame cameras as slow. These are top professional cameras with matching performance in all aspects

Fair enough - I didn't consider the 9fps of the D3s (or 11fps when shooting in the greatly reduced resolution DX mode).

APS-H isnt full frame though.

 

[vash87]

ok, i knew i wasnt technically right when i said you get more reach on a crop body - obviously the full frame sensor gets all that infomation anyway. but sometimes its nice to see the magnified image too, through the view finder of a crop body. i dont want to go out taking a bunch of photos knowing that im going to have to crop them all to get the image i want, id rather just get closer or zoom further (either with real zoom or pseudo crop body zoom).

 

[noxibox]

A simple test - take a compact camera that has a lens that is called equivalent to 600mm, and take a 600mm lens on a full frame camera, then on the full frame camera find a distant object you can just make out using that lens, and now try to see that same object through the lens of the compact camera.

 

[BigAl-sa]

A simple test - take a compact camera that has a lens that is called equivalent to 600mm, and take a 600mm lens on a full frame camera, then on the full frame camera find a distant object you can just make out using that lens, and now try to see that same object through the lens of the compact camera.

You're not looking at the crop factor effect here, but rather the efficiency of the lens. There is no way that you can compare the lens in a mik & druk to any dslr lens, especially with the ultra focal length range mik & druks.

 

[bwana]

A simple test - take a compact camera that has a lens that is called equivalent to 600mm, and take a 600mm lens on a full frame camera, then on the full frame camera find a distant object you can just make out using that lens, and now try to see that same object through the lens of the compact camera.

How is this simpler than my demonstration using the same lens on two 10mp cameras where the only difference is the physical size of the sensor?