Recruiters asking for payslips, can I refuse?

[Ancalagon]

If a recruiter asks me for a payslip before even getting me an interview, I will tell him to get stuffed.

If we get to offer stage and a payslip is required for legal purposes, I'll probably provide it, but only after salary has been agreed upon. I mean, only after they make me an offer.

That is exactly how it went down with my current company and interview process, by the way with a recruiter that I rate highly.

Reasons for the above - my payslip is none of the recruiters business at all. Not when there is no offer on the table.

If a company asked me for my payslip before making me an offer, then they don't trust my word that I earn a certain amount. If I was lying, then they would immediately catch it after receiving my payslip (as part of the paperwork process) and could rescind the offer.

The thing is, it is personal information. We as people (nevermind employees and employers and what not) should have the final say on who we give our personal information out to. I will not provide it to anyone who asks. That is the really important part - recruiters have this expectation that you must just do what they say and give out your payslip at the drop of a hat, but the thing is, it is in your control.

I don't say you should never give it out, but be careful with it.

These days, social engineering attacks are getting more and more careful. Think about what your payslip might have on it - salary, tax number, ID number, names, address. A lot of information that someone could use to impersonate you.

The only time I would see a payslip being required was if the company was offering less than what you were currently earning, in which case proof would be acceptable that they need to improve their offer.

Why would you need to prove that? First, you have wasted each others time because the salary range should have been agreed upon up front. Second, if they don't believe that I earn what I say, why hire me? You are going to probably end up giving me access to your production database and yet you don't trust that I earn what I say I earn?

I would just say no and walk away.

 

[Nerfherder]

Any good company would not ask you for your payslip. It's simply irrelevant to negotiations unless their offer is lower than what you're currently getting. These are your skills, this is the salary I'm looking for, let me know if that works for you.

This is why platforms like Offerzen are gaining in popularity- candidates are no longer being exploited so that they can be put on the back foot during negotiations. You list all your skills and capabilities on your profile, put your expected salary up and companies approach you based on that. I was on Offerzen for 2 months and interviewed with a number of companies, none of which asked what I'm currently earning. It was simply not relevant.

I also don't buy the "recruiters will negotiate the highest salary possible" spiel. Recruiters work for companies, not candidates. A company's win-win situation is getting the most qualified candidate for the lowest they can get away with paying them. A recruiter, as someone in an industry drowning in competitors, has some obligation to ensure the company 'wins' too. I know plenty of stories of recruiters who told candidates "how can you expect to just jump a salary band", despite the experience those candidates built up in their spare time placing them in a position where their current company is greatly underpaying them. I was outright told by a recruiter that they ask for payslips so that candidates can't 'cheat' their clients by asking for more than a 5%-10% increase. Imagine that? Asking for more than 10% is 'cheating' your new employer.

If I get mail or calls from recruiters and they ask what I'm currently being paid, I cease communications. The IT industry is small enough that you don't need that nonsense in your life. I know very few mid-senior people who had to get their current jobs through recruiters. Word of mouth and industry connections are the way to go. It's how I got my current one.

Recruiters get a % of your salary so its in their interest to get you as much as they can. At the end of the day they want to fill the post though and that means they need to get a realistic CTC...

Recruiters are useless for other reasons... the payslip thing is a employer requirement, meaning you shouldn't waste your time with them anyway.

 

[cguy]

That's like saying your existing company will pay you significantly more just for another degree. Not true from my experience in the corporate environment.

I said nothing of the sort. The OP said that his newly found education should gain him a higher salary - I have no idea if this is founded or not, but if true it is entirely reasonable to apply for a higher level job (at his current company or another company) and request a larger salary using this as justification. I also said that his previous experience isn't worth as much as he may think, since if the qualification is a big component, then he likely hasn't had experience at that level yet.

 

[Arthur]

IMO it should be illegal for companies / recruitment agencies to ask for your payslip. This is personal information.

Illegal? You serious? You actually want Parliament to make a law about this?

Just don't supply the requested payslip. It's your choice.

Please. Let's keep the State out of our employment negotiations.

No need for you to hide behind laws on this issue, other than the Law of Supply and Demand, and the Law of Common Sense. Anything involving the State (ie police, courts, and prisons) on this issue is an intolerable intrusion.

 

[cguy]

Any good company would not ask you for your payslip. It's simply irrelevant to negotiations unless their offer is lower than what you're currently getting. These are your skills, this is the salary I'm looking for, let me know if that works for you.

Yeah, only crap companies like Google, Apple, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Facebook, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc. ask for your previous pay...

I also don't buy the "recruiters will negotiate the highest salary possible" spiel. Recruiters work for companies, not candidates. A company's win-win situation is getting the most qualified candidate for the lowest they can get away with paying them. A recruiter, as someone in an industry drowning in competitors, has some obligation to ensure the company 'wins' too.

No, recruiters work for themselves. They will try to convince the candidates to accept less and the companies to pay more in order to get a placement, since this is when they get paid. Also, unless you are talking about assembly line workers, it is far more important for a company to fill a position with the right person than it is to opportunistically score a bit of salary arbitrage.

I know plenty of stories of recruiters who told candidates "how can you expect to just jump a salary band", despite the experience those candidates built up in their spare time placing them in a position where their current company is greatly underpaying them. I was outright told by a recruiter that they ask for payslips so that candidates can't 'cheat' their clients by asking for more than a 5%-10% increase. Imagine that? Asking for more than 10% is 'cheating' your new employer.

We must really travel in different circles - in 20 years in the industry I have never heard anything remotely like what you are saying.

 

[Stefanmuller]

Company X is advertising a vacancy for R35k. Go for interview, they are interested and ask for payslip before making an offer. They see your salary slip at your current employer sitting at R20k. They then offer you the position for R28k. Had your previous salary been R28 they would have offered closer to R35k. This is fact.

I do understand their view and I would probably also do it had the tables been turned, but this means that a poor salary takes a long time to get out of. This is especially true if you took a trainee type job like accountant where you started very low.

If you are required to give your payslip, then surely you are allowed to know what the specific position paid the previous person that left. That way you know if they are lowballing you.

 

[Zoopy]

You're definitely traveling in different circles if you've never come across it. Here's an excerpt from a LinkedIn post that I was reading just a few minutes ago while searching for another LinkedIn post by another recruiter who said pretty much the exact same thing in March:

Why would an inflated current salary be an issue, you ask? Well imagine Mike tells his client Bobs expected salary is R23000 per month, which is the agreed amount by Bob and based on a market related increase from R20000. Now the client wants the payslip, as per the SLA, and sees that Bob is only on R18000. The client is confused as to why Bob wants such a large increase (+-30%) and is not sure what Mike was thinking. The client thinks the increase is unreasonable and potentially feels he is being taken advantage of, and decides not to pursue any further.

So quite literally, the employer was willing to pay R23k for Bob's skills, but after seeing his current salary suddenly it's too expensive. That makes it clear that recruiters do not think your salary should be dependent on the value of your skills. Clearly if you ask for a significant jump in salary, you're cheatingTM their clients.

This is a mindset that permeates the recruitment industry. In fact, it's hard to find recruiters who don't think salary negotiations should begin and end with your current salary.

Yeah, only crap companies like Google, Apple, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Facebook, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc. ask for your previous pay...

Payslip, not pay. But in any case, all of those companies are massive companies and if they ask what you're currently earning it's no likely to be because they want to lowball you. Most of us here aren't interviewing at those companies, are we?
Either way, it would be interesting to put your theory to the test. My husband has an interview with Facebook London next week. If they make him an offer I wonder if they'll ask him for his payslips. In the last 6 months he's interviewed at a number international companies, including Hashicorp and SoundCloud. None of them asked for payslips. None of the German companies he interviewed at asked him either, including the one whose offer he ended up accepting. At most he was asked for an expected salary and was made offers based on that.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, only crap companies like Google, Apple, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, Facebook, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc. ask for your previous pay...

A lot of those companies were guilty of illegal collusion to depress the salaries of engineers in California, so I would not call them the gold standard as far as fair compensation goes.

 

[cguy]

A lot of those companies were guilty of illegal collusion to depress the salaries of engineers in California, so I would not call them the gold standard as far as fair compensation goes.

Those companies are among the highest paying companies in the world. They are therefore precisely the gold standard for compensation.

 

[cguy]

You're definitely traveling in different circles if you've never come across it. Here's an excerpt from a LinkedIn post that I was reading just a few minutes ago while searching for another LinkedIn post by another recruiter who said pretty much the exact same thing in March:

So quite literally, the employer was willing to pay R23k for Bob's skills, but after seeing his current salary suddenly it's too expensive. That makes it clear that recruiters do not think your salary should be dependent on the value of your skills. Clearly if you ask for a significant jump in salary, you're cheatingTM their clients.

Firstly, that is a highly simplistic hypothetical example - it's nowhere near as cut and dry in practice. Secondly, it absolutely does not follow that recruiters don't think your salary should be dependent on the value of your skills. What follows is that employers believe that in addition to your skills, your previous salary, along with the circumstances of that salary should be factored in. I agree with this sentiment.

Payslip, not pay.

If you're not trying to lie, what is the salient difference?

But in any case, all of those companies are massive companies and if they ask what you're currently earning it's no likely to be because they want to lowball you. Most of us here aren't interviewing at those companies, are we?

You said "any good company would not ask you for your payslip". Now you're qualifying that with "apart from good massive companies". Making sweeping generalizations, and the back-peddling is one thing, but at least try to rationalize it - why do you think big tech companies are different from small companies (and apparently "small" companies like banks and insurance companies in SA)?

Either way, it would be interesting to put your theory to the test. My husband has an interview with Facebook London next week. If they make him an offer I wonder if they'll ask him for his payslips. In the last 6 months he's interviewed at a number international companies, including Hashicorp and SoundCloud. None of them asked for payslips. None of the German companies he interviewed at asked him either, including the one whose offer he ended up accepting. At most he was asked for an expected salary and was made offers based on that.

Since you corrected "pay" to "payslip", I don't really know what you mean by the above - did they really not ask him about prior pay before making an offer? Did he really get a bunch of offers over 6-months and turned them all down even though he gave them his expected salary? Why did he turn them down then? This doesn't make sense - or do you mean, they just didn't ask for a literal payslip?

Also, regardless of whether or not Facebook asks him for prior pay information, Facebook absolutely does do this. If they don't ask your husband specifically, all it means is that they don't always do this, which isn't really unexpected.

 

[reactor_sa]

You're definitely traveling in different circles if you've never come across it. Here's an excerpt from a LinkedIn post that I was reading just a few minutes ago while searching for another LinkedIn post by another recruiter who said pretty much the exact same thing in March:



So quite literally, the employer was willing to pay R23k for Bob's skills, but after seeing his current salary suddenly it's too expensive. That makes it clear that recruiters do not think your salary should be dependent on the value of your skills. Clearly if you ask for a significant jump in salary, you're cheatingTM their clients.

This is a mindset that permeates the recruitment industry. In fact, it's hard to find recruiters who don't think salary negotiations should begin and end with your current salary.



Payslip, not pay. But in any case, all of those companies are massive companies and if they ask what you're currently earning it's no likely to be because they want to lowball you. Most of us here aren't interviewing at those companies, are we?
Either way, it would be interesting to put your theory to the test. My husband has an interview with Facebook London next week. If they make him an offer I wonder if they'll ask him for his payslips. In the last 6 months he's interviewed at a number international companies, including Hashicorp and SoundCloud. None of them asked for payslips. None of the German companies he interviewed at asked him either, including the one whose offer he ended up accepting. At most he was asked for an expected salary and was made offers based on that.

That's because in many first world countries with minimum wage, and low to no inflation, 99% of the sample will be earning within a narrow earning range. 1% might be special cases.
In south Africa the variance is ridiculous, and the job title means next to nothing as it's not standardised.

 

[Kerrits]

I say give them the payslip, and then give them your earning expectations as well. And stick by it.

If you are a dev with decent experience, you have a lot of negotiating power.

If they want to know why they should give you 30% more, tell them that you want to move because you are underpaid and see no point in moving if that is not addressed. You don't want to have to bounce again in 6 months time when the next better offer comes, so you're holding out for someone who is willing to pay you what you are worth.

 

[Dal1]

They won't even ask you to motivate as you would not get to that point after they have seen the current salary. I currently do the same work that I would after graduating, just took a lower salary to gain working experience and the degree.
The problem is they normally don't advertise salary. So you ask for market related. They then ask what you currently earn. At that exact point in time market related goes out the window and only current salary is a deciding factor.

 

[Dal1]

Company X is advertising a vacancy for R35k. Go for interview, they are interested and ask for payslip before making an offer. They see your salary slip at your current employer sitting at R20k. They then offer you the position for R28k. Had your previous salary been R28 they would have offered closer to R35k. This is fact.

I do understand their view and I would probably also do it had the tables been turned, but this means that a poor salary takes a long time to get out of. This is especially true if you took a trainee type job like accountant where you started very low.

If you are required to give your payslip, then surely you are allowed to know what the specific position paid the previous person that left. That way you know if they are lowballing you.

This is exactly my point. Without the salary being advertised, the starting point is always current payslip (which in my case I feel will be irrelevant by the time). I would be able to argue my point, but the thing I am worried about not even getting the chance after telling the recruiter "sorry, I'm not prepared to give my payslip". They'll immediately chuck your CV and go on with the stack lying on the desk.

 

[Dal1]

I say give them the payslip, and then give them your earning expectations as well. And stick by it.

If you are a dev with decent experience, you have a lot of negotiating power.

If they want to know why they should give you 30% more, tell them that you want to move because you are underpaid and see no point in moving if that is not addressed. You don't want to have to bounce again in 6 months time when the next better offer comes, so you're holding out for someone who is willing to pay you what you are worth.

I like this, thanks!

 

[Batista]

Thanks, learnt from this thread.I always handed them over without questions.

Currently im renegotiating my salary at my company.They said it will take 4-6 weeks to benchmark and get back to me.Hmmmmmm.

 

[CamiKaze]

Thanks, learnt from this thread.I always handed them over without questions.

Currently im renegotiating my salary at my company.They said it will take 4-6 weeks to benchmark and get back to me.Hmmmmmm.

Pffft.

Prepare for some "we don't have budget in the department", "the market isn't really doing well", "we tried hard to negotiate but HR said..." and "maybe we can motivate or increase it with the next round of increases/bonuses".

 

[jman]

I was called by a recruiter today. Sounded good until he said that the company typically offers between 10-15%. Stopped him right there and then, and told him I won't be interested in that, and that I am underpaid, and won't be taking something based off my current salary. He wasn't taken aback or anything, to his credit, and told me to fill out some form including expected salary

 

[cguy]

I was called by a recruiter today. Sounded good until he said that the company typically offers between 10-15%. Stopped him right there and then, and told him I won't be interested in that, and that I am underpaid, and won't be taking something based off my current salary. He wasn't taken aback or anything, to his credit, and told me to fill out some form including expected salary

That's such a silly policy for a company to have. It's like they think they're buying oranges or something.

 

[ToxicBunny]

That's such a silly policy for a company to have. It's like they think they're buying oranges or something.

Its a policy quite a few companies in SA have....

Just experienced it myself. Told the company and the recruiter that it was annual increase time and the increase average was going to be around x percent, so they would need to factor that in to their offer. They came back at around 12% over my current salary without the increase.