Relationship help thread...

[b_crazy]

Not everything she says is without merit, but she seems to have a massive chip on her shoulder. First she tells us what this girl did was fine, and when we don't agree we get accused of stereotyping women, generalizing women, defending abusive men and being misogynists. This all while she admits that she operates under the premise that she doesn't trust men and think they're all bastards.

Nuh-uh, meisiekind. Dit werkie so nie.

I'm with you here. Thing is, she doesn't think men are all bastard, lying rapists. She seems almost certain of it. My experience has taught me it's impossible to change this viewpoint without, as a man, grovelling and being apologetic for what you're not responsible for to the point of demeaning yourself and still losing in the end, anyways, because you've been set up to fail from the start.

I know a woman who was hurt once or twice (broken engagement and such) and has no trust for any man. Yet her dad is an amazing man in his 60s that treats her mum like they just met yesterday. She still thinks her dad is the only man like that in this world, that in some way men like that just don't exist any more.

 

[Foxhound5366]

And there we are right back to the heart of your misandry. Nobody in this thread defended men who are abusive. We pointed out that it is not only men who are abusive.

You want us to defend the actions of abusive men, yet when talking about abusive women you say they are not your problem. Why do we have to be held accountable for abusive men when you refuse to do the same for abusive women?

You're a hypocrite. And a misandrist. And a feminazi. Come talk to us again when your mind isn't clouded by misandry.

My God man, did that feel good to get off your chest?

Let's just remind ourselves that THIS THREAD is about a woman who doubted a man, and the man who wanted to 'put her in her place' (after some negative peer pressure from the likes of you).

Doubting a partner is not a crime. Nor is SaoirseB's or my defense of what people like you see as the little 'manipulative b*tch with trust issues' in that scenario. What IS shameful, however, is the sheer anger you just spewed at SaoirseB above, for no better reason than you decided that you wanted to 'put her in her place' without even bothering to listen to what she was actually saying. So long as she disagreed with you, she was wrong ... it could never be that YOU are wrong, naturally.

That sort of arrogance is the problem with South Africans ... white South African men specifically. It's got nothing to do with being male or South African, but everything to do with a negative culture that perpetuates itself in the hate-filled little circles these people inhabit.

Like this thread, for example.

 

[registerforfree]

Oh wow. You feel better now?

If you'd actually bothered to read, you would see that my issue was with her double standards. What make me angry was that she was crying about how women are being generalized while simultaneously admitting that she generalizes men and refuses to give them the benefit of the doubt. Meanwhile she keeps claiming that me and the other guys in this thread are supporting abusive behavior. She expects men to be kicked like dogs without saying anything in our defense and then she wants us to worship at the altar of women to boot.

People like you are the issue. You don't listen to what we're saying and jump to your own conclusions. Now I 'put her in her place' not because she was being a hypocrite, but because I'm a hate-filled person. Kindly take that sand out of your ass crack and then stuff it up your urethra, mate. This recent trend that women can supposedly just get away with misandry is BS.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Oh wow. You feel better now?

I do actually, thanks On the contrary, I WAS listening to what you were saying - little gems like this: "You're a hypocrite. And a misandrist. And a feminazi. Come talk to us again when your mind isn't clouded by misandry."

Just fyi, it's considered bad style to repeat the same negative adjective (misandrist/misandry) in the same line. It kinda hints at frothy-mouthed rage, more than high-level debating.

Also, I think you're being unfair to her: she made some very valid comments about men, and incidentally those comments were justified by all the narrow-minded men (like yourself) who flew off the handle because a woman dared to question their superior judgement.

Of course that doesn't matter a bit - you're all grown adults and don't have to be friends (nor will you be after your rant). However, it DOES matter when it's somebody who's slept with you (or had a 'shag' as one Romeo romatically put it here repeatedly), and who you're actually worried enough about how to respond that you run to MyBB to post a relationship thread (rather than just talking to the woman in question - that'd be too weird/hard/emotionally challenging, right?).

The only reason I bother to engage with people who're reacting so negatively here is because all the men who're so nobly tearing into SaoirseB and the OP's significant other/casual lay (read into it as you will) like a pack of dogs are definitely losing perspective. Neither MyBB nor the WORLD needs that brand of anger.

 

[kianm]

To OP a woman who goes through your phone so early in the relationship is going to give you headaches

 

[Foxhound5366]

To OP a woman who goes through your phone so early in the relationship is going to give you headaches

Well, on the flip-side, rather find out about the issues now before the serious commitment has already happened, so that these issues can be discussed and addressed, or both partners can just move on separately. Maybe the OP was a lucky man.

 

[registerforfree]

Wooosh! And for the love of god, even more wooooosh!

So okay, let's cut this thing down to size. Your little friend here was being blatantly sexist. She even admitted to it, while she was judging other posters and calling them sexist. I mean, holy ****. How are people not supposed to get angry? People with glass houses and all that? Hello?! It's kinda hard to have a civil conversation when the other party has already decided you're an ******* and accuses you of expecting women to prostrate themselves at the feet of men or defending rapists, child abusers and molesters.

Holy **** how are you not getting why people were getting pissed?

She's more than welcome to disagree with us, but she can't expect us to pussyfoot around her while she's throwing rocks on our heads from the windows of her glass house. Like I said, she can come back and have this discussion when her judgment isn't clouded by misandry.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Ok registerforfree, before you break the Internet with all your whooshing sounds, we'll just agree that your reaction to her was every bit as extreme as you claim her reaction to you was. Although in reality, it wasn't, was it? She never once went on a tirade at you like you did at her ... in fact, she respectfully bowed out, while you kept (and keep!) going on. She never called you names personally, while you called her names.

I'm sorry, I'm not hearing the whooshing now?

Or is your self-confidence so over-powering that you still think you behaved sensibly here?

You seem to think you're a self-appointed defender of all men, trampling a 'feminazi' into the ground for daring to imply that a man might be wrong.

In this case, I'm happy to agree with SaoirseB ... the OP DID react in the wrong way, and his comment to 'put her in her place' was insensitive and overboard. Another fact here is your total overreaction to SaoirseB, and your attempt to bait her into attacking you.

As you're amply proving now, it would have been pointless.

 

[Ancalagon]

Also, I think you're being unfair to her: she made some very valid comments about men, and incidentally those comments were justified by all the narrow-minded men (like yourself) who flew off the handle because a woman dared to question their superior judgement.

I"m sorry, what valid comments about men? She admitted to being a misandrist and generalizing about all men. I'm not sure what else there is to say about that really. Heck of course a woman can question my judgment - but she better be prepared to back it up. Admitting she feels that way because of sexist ideals will not win any arguments.

Of course that doesn't matter a bit - you're all grown adults and don't have to be friends (nor will you be after your rant). However, it DOES matter when it's somebody who's slept with you (or had a 'shag' as one Romeo romatically put it here repeatedly), and who you're actually worried enough about how to respond that you run to MyBB to post a relationship thread (rather than just talking to the woman in question - that'd be too weird/hard/emotionally challenging, right?).

Wow a shag! What are you, the morality police? Must we call it making love?

You seem to think that women are innocent flowers, and that calling it shagging degrades them somehow. I better not tell you about some of the language that my exes have used during sex, because your ears might fall off. It doesn't always need to be making love and it doesn't always need to be shagging.

Incidentally, what do you have against being a man?

 

[Foxhound5366]

Ok Ancalagon, let's rise to the bait and actually look at what SaoirseB said that CLEARLY makes her such a feminazi.

Her giving the OP some good advice, actually complimenting him but warning him of his over-played defensiveness with the use of 'bitch':

You're doing it right, except scratch that part about becoming a b-tch. She didn't ask you to become her b-tch. She simply stated how she feels. She doesn't trust you right now and you're going to have to earn it.

Her correctly noting something many male commentators here have overlooked: the OP's woman wasn't actually snooping, she just saw something the OP didn't mean to show her while showing her his phone:

This.

He showed her the cellphone and it accidentally went to the wrong message. She didn't snope.

SaoirseB opening up and explaining her own back-story, showing why she's sensitive about issues like this and is actually able to empathise with the girl's actions, AND also being bold enough to admit that she'd mis-read one statement:

Sorry as a woman I'm very sensitive when it comes to stuff like this. I personally knew two girls who got played like this. One had a nervous breakdown, the other ended up in an institution for 3 months.

But my bad. I didn't realize it was meant as a joke. I read it as the OP should tell her he loves her to get her to forgive/move on with him thereby manipulating/playing with her emotions.

So tell me Ancalagon, are all those posts above dripping in misandry, or is it just possible that you're maybe being harsh on SaoirseB for no good reason at all other than you don't like what she's saying so you're attacking her as a person instead (a classic debating fail)?

Now, if we can move onto your personal beef with me, I don't hate being a man. What I hate is narrow-minded men claiming that actually having a heart-felt discussion with a woman is unnecessary, because ... you know ... chicks are like totally stupid, and how dare anybody question Almighty Man.

These same men expect their women to swoon all over them all the time, never doubt them, and always accept all the sh*t this type of man inevitably shovels his partner's way. For those men's partners, I take my hat off to them ... I've got no clue how or why they handle it, but sadly it's sometimes self-sacrifice to put up with an a-hole just to look after the kids.

PS: One can call sex anything you want, and I'm a fan of that. However, if there is one good rule I've seen is that the type of men who normally talk about 'shag' in a derogatory manner are the same kind of men who fit into other stereotypical narrow-minded moulds. In other words, not all men who talk about shagging are ass-hats, but all women-hating ass-hats talk about shagging.

 

[registerforfree]

Uh-huh. I was wondering if my-soggy-knees was going to make it in at some point. You might wanna go have a look at my arguments with Midnight_Choir_Black and then reevaluate whether I'm the "self-appointed defender of all men" you dolt.

You want my opinion on the OP's situation again? The girl overreacted. When you see something that upsets you, you discuss it with the person you were intimate with and who you're looking to start a relationship with. That's how adults do it. They communicate. They don't leave in a huff and then keep the person hanging by a thread by telling them they need a few days to cool down. That's called being bitchy and controlling, regardless of whether you're a lipstick lesbian, a straight woman, a straight guy or a nelly little bottom boy. If you could stop calling us misogynists for not running to kiss this girl's feet, that would be lovely.

As for me still going, I'm merely responding to you aren't I? If you didn't want me to keep posting why are you still [-]telling me what a misogynist I am[/-] engaging me in discussion? In fact, why are you so fervently defending this girl's honor? She's a strong, independent woman. I'm pretty sure she doesn't need you to defend her.

And no, she didn't respectfully bow out. She left in a huff. Just like the girl the OP was talking about.

 

[Ancalagon]

Let's reread what you wrote:

she made some very valid comments about men

Notice: her valid comments, according to you, were not concerning the OP's situation, trust, cheating, or deceit. They were about men.

Let's reread my question:

I"m sorry, what valid comments about men?

Now, given that, do the quotes you have mined answer my question? No, they were about the OP's situation.

With that out of the way, thank you for answering my last question.

My position is that, if only we were all enlightened beings and not this crude matter, as Yoda so elegantly put it. However, we are not. People play mindgames even when they say they hate mindgames. They just don't call them mindgames. Here is a test - meet a girl that is perfect for you and you are perfect for her. Spend the whole day messaging her on whatsapp, and you have about a 90% chance that she will get bored with you.

That is unfortunately how life works. By messaging her on whatsapp for the entire day, you were showing her that you were not busy negotiating multi million rand deals. Neither were you performing life saving surgery on cancer patients. Nor were you winning the surfing competition.

This is the problem. Having a heart to heart is all well and good - but so little of our communication is verbal. By the time she has read that message saying you need to meet to talk, you have said a lot more than you think you have.

Is this to say that having a heart to heart is a bad thing? No, but it depends on the context. In this context, I'd say it is unnecessary. 3 weeks is not enough for it to be necessary. If trust and jealousy issues are rearing their heads 3 weeks in, then the relationship will have problems going forward. It doesn't matter who you blame, the result is the same.

So I think saying that heart to hearts will solve problems like this is unfortunately being naive - you want to think that opening up to her will make her respect you, but it isn't that simple.

 

[registerforfree]

So tell me Ancalagon, are all those posts above dripping in misandry, or is it just possible that you're maybe being harsh on SaoirseB for no good reason at all other than you don't like what she's saying so you're attacking her as a person instead (a classic debating fail)?

So you quote all the posts before the misandric ones start? How disingenuous of you.

Now, if we can move onto your personal beef with me, I don't hate being a man. What I hate is narrow-minded men claiming that actually having a heart-felt discussion with a woman is unnecessary, because ... you know ... chicks are like totally stupid, and how dare anybody question Almighty Man.

These same men expect their women to swoon all over them all the time, never doubt them, and always accept all the sh*t this type of man inevitably shovels his partner's way. For those men's partners, I take my hat off to them ... I've got no clue how or why they handle it, but sadly it's sometimes self-sacrifice to put up with an a-hole just to look after the kids.

Who's making assumptions now? Now you're not only generalizing, but putting words in all our mouths. You've somehow managed to paint us all as misogynistic women-haters. Why am I not surprised?

 

[Pitbull]

I"m sorry, what valid comments about men? She admitted to being a misandrist and generalizing about all men. I'm not sure what else there is to say about that really. Heck of course a woman can question my judgment - but she better be prepared to back it up. Admitting she feels that way because of sexist ideals will not win any arguments.



Wow a shag! What are you, the morality police? Must we call it making love?

You seem to think that women are innocent flowers, and that calling it shagging degrades them somehow. I better not tell you about some of the language that my exes have used during sex, because your ears might fall off. It doesn't always need to be making love and it doesn't always need to be shagging.

Incidentally, what do you have against being a man?

100%

****, Fornicate, flicking the bean, mixing the salad, pile driving the list is endless. it's the same bloody thing... Geesus, do people call it playing with daisies lately or something?

 

[Ancalagon]

100%

****, Fornicate, flicking the bean, mixing the salad, pile driving the list is endless. it's the same bloody thing... Geesus, do people call it playing with daisies lately or something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGITHyegatM&t=7m35s

 

[Foxhound5366]

*facepalm* Ok guys, we could keep one-upping each other all night for fun, but you know what? I'm not interested in that. I think there are a staggering number of hypocritical statements sweeping about, but goodness knows that's the bedrock of the Internet.

So, instead of responding directly to any one poster, I'll just share this video which has an interesting (and calming) message:

[video=youtube;eakKfY5aHmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eakKfY5aHmY[/video]

A lot of people could watch that video and just see birds in flight. A lot of other people could look at it, and see breathtaking poetry. The difference isn't in what the people are looking at, but the people themselves.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, or understand SaoirseB's original points, then maybe we're just different people. And it's not just us either, although I'll definitely admit that based on my experience level-headed people are in a definite minority online.

Have a pleasant evening all, and just remember ... if a woman you like ever thinks you hurt her, ask yourself honestly whether you might be hurt if the situation was reversed, BEFORE you get all self-defensive and switch into full-on attack mode. Doing that might just overcome a small hurdle and allow you two to really connect in a meaningful way, and not just a 'passage sex' kind of way.

 

[Pitbull]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGITHyegatM&t=7m35s

LOL, that is what they want us to think

 

[Pitbull]

*facepalm* Ok guys, we could keep one-upping each other all night for fun, but you know what? I'm not interested in that. I think there are a staggering number of hypocritical statements sweeping about, but goodness knows that's the bedrock of the Internet.

So, instead of responding directly to any one poster, I'll just share this video which has an interesting (and calming) message:

[video=youtube;eakKfY5aHmY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eakKfY5aHmY[/video]

A lot of people could watch that video and just see birds in flight. A lot of other people could look at it, and see breathtaking poetry. The difference isn't in what the people are looking at, but the people themselves.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, or understand SaoirseB's original points, then maybe we're just different people. And it's not just us either, although I'll definitely admit that based on my experience level-headed people are in a definite minority online.

Have a pleasant evening all, and just remember ... if a woman you like ever thinks you hurt her, ask yourself honestly whether you might be hurt if the situation was reversed, BEFORE you get all self-defensive and switch into full-on attack mode. Doing that might just overcome a small hurdle and allow you two to really connect in a meaningful way, and not just a 'passage sex' kind of way.

Dude, not of this will get you laid. Chill out

 

[SaharaSnow]

Guys, it is not about gender, it is about people aka humanoids. You will find non-awesome characteristics and behaviours from both. If you are with someone who does not rock your boat the way you need it rocked, make peace somehow if you perceive to be "stuck", work on it (both of you dammit!), or move along. Being single is underrated anyway - really . There is nothing better than being in love with yourself (not in an egotistical way). Rock your own boat. Try to lighten up my fellow humanoids. Everyone has a demon and a saint within - just depends on which one you feed most.

An early Happy Valentine's Day to all you fabulous men out there!

 

[Random Hero]

Hi everyone, Original MVP is back.

Geez this tread has progressed, sad that I missed the damn discussions. will read all of them tonight.

Well from my part, I think she is warming up to me... but there is still some slight animosity, I can sense it.
Before the cellphone debacle we did this thing where I am batman and she is bat girl, so tonight I sent her this picture of batman saying "I'm Batman" and she responded with "I'm Batgirl".

And we have been chatting a bit more comfortably.

I think the main lessons here was that I was wrong for ripping the phone from her hand (that obviously showed that I wanted to hide something) but my defence was that it was all before me and her. I told her I except the the blame and I will not try to justify myself and I said sorry...

I think in situations like these the best thing is to not fight and to rather evaluate the causes and put yourself in the other persons shoes... obviously one party will be angry and will probably throw some insults in anger which they probably wont mean... So leaving them to cool off is probably best..
But yeah I do not think that We will be attending Passenger together on valentines day, so that sucks... and sleep overs will probably be put on hold... so that really sucks a lot too..

Honesty is the best policy... Regrets best left unspoken.