RIP Charlie Kirk

[Mirai]

He was being a prick to a dead guy who was a prick about the deaths of school kids. Weird how that works. Animal farm. At least Kimmel can claim he's a comedian.

Most if not all people are pricks at some stage to some person or another person. Kirk did not deserve to die. There was nothing he could have said which deserved death. There was nothing he said that deserved death. People should forget about their emotions towards his statements and acknowledge that the man was murdered for nothing. It adds no value to say that Kirk was a prick. It's like saying Kirk did not wear shorts at his events.

Also I'm not sure Kirk was a "prick about the deaths of school kids".

Instead he said this:

Fact Check: Charlie Kirk once said some gun deaths 'worth it' in order to have Second Amendment

The Turning Point USA CEO and co-founder made the remarks while answering a question during a TPUSA Faith event in April 2023.

ca.news.yahoo.com

You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am, I, I — I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.

So then, how do you reduce? Very simple. People say, oh, Charlie, how do you stop school shootings? I don't know. How did we stop shootings at baseball games? Because we have armed guards outside of baseball games. That's why. How did we stop all the shootings at airports? We have armed guards outside of airports. How do we stop all the shootings at banks? We have armed guards outside of banks. How did we stop all the shootings at gun shows? Notice there's not a lot of mass shootings at gun shows, there's all these guns. Because everyone's armed. If our money and our sporting events and our airplanes have armed guards, why don't our children?

Earlier in the quote he compares the American gun ownership to operating motor vehicles with the attendant MVA injuries and deaths. Everything has a good and bad side to it. You can take panado for your headache but occasionally in some people it will give them liver failure and death. Do we ban the sale of panado from shops especially if it's sold in doses many times higher that will cause death? Do we make it prescription only? Many other examples could be added here. Is it worth it that occasionally people die from liver failure from panado to allow millions of people the right to convenient pain and fever relief?

Regarding Kimmel, people had issues with this statement: "We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it."

As you say comedian, but was he funny here?

 

[quovadis]

But but but.... trump... authoritarian regime.... hitler.... etc etc lol.

Fun.

 

[Mirai]

Fun.
View attachment 1850801

So the terribly 'authoritarian' Trump was powerless to shut Kimmel's show down. The mighty FCC likewise was also not able to shut his show down.

 

[quovadis]

So the terribly 'authoritarian' Trump was powerless to shut Kimmel's show down. The mighty FCC likewise was also not able to shut his show down.

Again, it’s not about how effective he is at it - it’s the fact they try…

 

[Mirai]

Again, it’s not about how effective he is at it - it’s the fact they try…

No. It's all about how effective it is. It shows they have no power. It's all just Trump's rhetoric. His style.

But hold on, Biden was actually more effective here:

Google Admits Censorship Under Biden; Promises to End Bans of YouTube Accounts of Thousands of Americans Censored for Political Speech

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, thanks to the oversight of Chairman Jim Jordan (R-OH), Google commits to offer all creators previously kicked off YouTube due to political speech violations on topics such as COVID-19 and elections an opportunity to return to the platform.

judiciary.house.gov

"Today, thanks to the oversight of Chairman Jim Jordan (R-OH), Google commits to offer all creators previously kicked off YouTube due to political speech violations on topics such as COVID-19 and elections an opportunity to return to the platform."

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Again, it’s not about how effective he is at it - it’s the fact they try…

Under Biden, they didn't "try", they succeeded, who knows how many times in silencing conservatives.

But I'm sure you have nothing to say about that.......

 

[wbot]

Fun.
View attachment 1850801

And? Trump wasn't to blame. He may hate Kimmel and want him gone, but Trump's opinion didn't cause Kimmel's 3 day timeout.

 

[quovadis]

No. It's all about how effective it is. It shows they have no power. It's all just Trump's rhetoric. His style.

But hold on, Biden was actually more effective here:

Google Admits Censorship Under Biden; Promises to End Bans of YouTube Accounts of Thousands of Americans Censored for Political Speech

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, thanks to the oversight of Chairman Jim Jordan (R-OH), Google commits to offer all creators previously kicked off YouTube due to political speech violations on topics such as COVID-19 and elections an opportunity to return to the platform.

judiciary.house.gov

"Today, thanks to the oversight of Chairman Jim Jordan (R-OH), Google commits to offer all creators previously kicked off YouTube due to political speech violations on topics such as COVID-19 and elections an opportunity to return to the platform."

Under Biden, they didn't "try", they succeeded, who knows how many times in silencing conservatives.

But I'm sure you have nothing to say about that.......

So. Bad right? Or you gonna go with whataboutism?

 

[quovadis]

And? Trump wasn't to blame. He may hate Kimmel and want him gone, but Trump's opinion didn't cause Kimmel's 3 day timeout.

Odd then there were discussions with abc then…

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

So. Bad right? Or you gonna go with whataboutism?

It's not whataboutism, the Democrats have done far worse and for far longer than what Trump is doing (which is equally as wrong by the way) so I don't know why you lot didn't speak up then, and are now all of a sudden all worried about Americans first amendment rights.

Oh right, because it suits your skewed moral and political views, not because it is wrong.

 

[quovadis]

It's not whataboutism, the Democrats have done far worse and for far longer than what Trump is doing (which is equally as wrong by the way) so I don't know why you lot didn't speak up then, and are now all of a sudden all worried about Americans first amendment rights.

Oh right, because it suits your skewed moral and political views, not because it is wrong.

Nah, just posted what Trump posted himself and you “but Biden!”. That’s whataboutism bud,

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Under Biden, they didn't "try", they succeeded, who knows how many times in silencing conservatives.

But I'm sure you have nothing to say about tha

It's funny how they've become free speech warriors overnight when the Left have been the great enforcers of codes of speech at universities, the media etc. for an extended period of time. They broadly supported Twitter/X when they removed conservative accounts etc. Their conversion does not come across as genuine at all. Completely fake.

 

[quovadis]

It's funny how they've become free speech warriors overnight when the Left have been the great enforcers of codes of speech at universities, the media etc. for an extended period of time. They broadly supported Twitter/X when they removed conservative accounts etc. Their conversion does not come across as genuine at all. Completely fake.

Private companies can do whatever they like…

 

[FiestaST]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1970890535394295836

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Nah, just posted what Trump posted himself and you “but Biden!”. That’s whataboutism bud,

You're a hypocrite. That is my point.

At least we know now that you have no response to the points I made.

 

[Mirai]

So. Bad right? Or you gonna go with whataboutism?

I'm going with, everyone has been doing it. When I was young I thought every politician was a saint. Every king in history was saint, good kings at least. Bad kings were bad. Good kings were good. And so on. But as you mature, say in your 30s you realise that people are human and sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes history is whitewashed a bit. It doesn't mean that all was bad before but it means that even beautiful people have body odour and offensive bowel motions. It's like making sausage.

But as is, this has been happening for a while. And while Trump has a big mouth and talks tough, it was Biden who was soft spoken and censored at least as much.

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Private companies can do whatever they like…

Yes, especially when pressured by the government

Are you even listening to the crap you are spewing?

 

[quovadis]

You're a hypocrite. That is my point.

At least we know now that you have no response to the points I made.

I responded. You resorted to whataboutism. Have a great night.

 

[DreamKing]

trump didn't arrest kimmel? shame.

what kind of dictator / fascist / nazi trump is?

trump, you are a failed dictator, you should learn from kim how he can be.

 

[Mirai]

It's not whataboutism, the Democrats have done far worse and for far longer than what Trump is doing (which is equally as wrong by the way) so I don't know why you lot didn't speak up then, and are now all of a sudden all worried about Americans first amendment rights.

Oh right, because it suits your skewed moral and political views, not because it is wrong.

Yep. Whataboutism or tu quoque is not always a fallacy. Here we're establishing context. I used it to show that Biden is accused of doing at least the same and doing so SUCCESSFULLY which was my argument. If Trump is such a bad guy, his relative lack of power seems to be incongruent with that assertion.

From Wiki

Some commentators have defended the usage of whataboutism and tu quoque in certain contexts. Whataboutism can provide necessary context into whether or not a particular line of critique is relevant or fair, and behavior that may be imperfect by international standards may be appropriate in a given geopolitical neighbourhood.

Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking).

If we're going to deny all forms of context then how can we discuss anything. How can only even claim Trump is authoritarian as we don't know what a non-authoritarian president behaves like? Where is the logic here? No logic, but rhetoric and sophistry.