RIP Charlie Kirk

ForceFate said:
For statistical purposes, violence is often categorised.
Click to expand...
You've missed my point, let me explain.
The only reason why the media, publishers, politicians etc use the term "gun violence" is again to demonise the object, or to push their narrative.

As I said there's no thing as gun violence, violence is violence, as for example you don't read or hear, knife violence, vehicular violence, explosive violence, bare fist violence etc
 
ToxicBunny said:
It's weird how empirical data doesn't support your conclusion on being safer when you can bear arms.
Click to expand...
It actually does, as for one example, it was researched.
"Wits School of Governance Report-Analysis of the Effect of the Firearms Control Act on Crime, 2000 – 2014"

The ultimate conclusion was, to effectively combat crime, the focus must be on policing itself, stricter gun control is not the answer, policing is, meaning actual visible policing, "boots" on the ground, the SAPS actually doing their duties, carrying out their mandate, not only that but getting rid of corruption within the SAPS, Detectives solving their cases, the prosecutors convicting the criminals, the justice system working and functioning as it should.
 
ToxicBunny said:
The uk is safer than the US and they don't have the right to bear arms.

Data and reality usually clash with lexys world view though.
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Quick question, do you recall the July 2021 riots and looting, especially in the KZN province?

What do you think would have happened if COMMUNITIES (citizens / the public) didn't act, or assisted the SAPS?

If it weren't for the citizens and private security sector it would have been a thousand times worse, communities SUPPLIED the SAPS with ammunition, transport, enforcement, security, communication etc..

Firearm owners literally supplied, and also reloaded ammunition for the SAPS, and flew in, and transported ammunition for them from Gauteng.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
You've missed my point, let me explain.
The only reason why the media, publishers, politicians etc use the term "gun violence" is again to demonise the object, or to push their narrative.

As I said there's no thing as gun violence, violence is violence, as for example you don't read or hear, knife violence, vehicular violence, explosive violence, bare fist violence etc
Click to expand...
www.statista.com

Number of assaults in the U.S. by weapon| Statista

In 2024, there were over 1.98 million assaults in the United States where personal weapons, such as hands, fists, or feet, were used.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
www.cvpsd.org

Understanding the Reality of Knife Attacks in the United States

Understanding the Reality of Knife Attacks in the United States
www.cvpsd.org www.cvpsd.org
Knife attacks, while less frequently discussed than gun violence, represent a significant threat in the United States. The statistics reveal a stark reality: knives are the second most common weapon used in homicides, following firearms. This article explores the prevalence of knife-related violence in the U.S., highlights key statistics, and discusses why knives remain a weapon of choice for many perpetrators.
Click to expand...

Right wing MSM; their far right brethren as well as pro-gun ownership lobby groups call it gun violence. Even Trump's White House call it gun violence!

Regarding "vehicular violence", cars are primarily meant as modes of transport unless it was purpose built for killing, such as certain types of police or military vehicles. Therefore, the concept of vehicular weapons is as ridiculous as it sounds. However, researchers and statisticians do report on these, though they may call it something else.
 
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NoStepOnSnek88 said:
That is due to an excessive amount of GANG RELATED incidents, that is why those figures are not truthful and factual.
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Governments often don't categorise gun violence by whether guns used were legally obtained or not, or whether violence was gang-related, since motive or grounds is often difficult to ascertain.
 
ForceFate said:
www.statista.com

Number of assaults in the U.S. by weapon| Statista

In 2024, there were over 1.98 million assaults in the United States where personal weapons, such as hands, fists, or feet, were used.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
www.cvpsd.org

Understanding the Reality of Knife Attacks in the United States

Understanding the Reality of Knife Attacks in the United States
www.cvpsd.org www.cvpsd.org


Right wing MSM; their far right brethren as well as pro-gun ownership lobby groups call it gun violence. Even Trump's White House call it gun violence!
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Ok, and you're point being?

I couldn't care if the King of Kuvuki Land uses the term "gun violence", the point remains violence is violence period.
Even if it's categorised, or data is recorded etc..
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Ok, and you're point being?

I couldn't care if the King of Kuvuki Land uses the term "gun violence", the point remains violence is violence period.
Even if it's categorised, or data is recorded etc..
Click to expand...
Why would right wing MSM, pro-gun lobby, etc demonise guns. They also call tge sub category "gun violence".
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
You've missed my point, let me explain.
The only reason why the media, publishers, politicians etc use the term "gun violence" is again to demonise the object, or to push their narrative.

As I said there's no thing as gun violence, violence is violence, as for example you don't read or hear, knife violence, vehicular violence, explosive violence, bare fist violence etc
Click to expand...
 
ForceFate said:
Governments often don't categorise gun violence by whether guns used were legally obtained or not, or whether violence was gang-related, since motive or grounds is often difficult to ascertain.
Click to expand...
The motives of the crime is clear as day, and the failures of State, City, government, justice system etc are as well, however it's not "politically correct" to discuss those facts, and address those failures.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
Quick question, do you recall the July 2021 riots and looting, especially in the KZN province?

What do you think would have happened if COMMUNITIES (citizens / the public) didn't act, or assisted the SAPS?

If it weren't for the citizens and private security sector it would have been a thousand times worse, communities SUPPLIED the SAPS with ammunition, transport, enforcement, security, communication etc..

Firearm owners literally supplied, and also reloaded ammunition for the SAPS, and flew in, and transported ammunition for them from Gauteng.
Click to expand...
That's nice.

The uk is still safer than the US without the right to bear arms.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
It actually does, as for one example, it was researched.
"Wits School of Governance Report-Analysis of the Effect of the Firearms Control Act on Crime, 2000 – 2014"

The ultimate conclusion was, to effectively combat crime, the focus must be on policing itself, stricter gun control is not the answer, policing is, meaning actual visible policing, "boots" on the ground, the SAPS actually doing their duties, carrying out their mandate, not only that but getting rid of corruption within the SAPS, Detectives solving their cases, the prosecutors convicting the criminals, the justice system working and functioning as it should.
Click to expand...
Actually that kind of proves my point though.

Gun control or the right to bear arms is not the main driver of being safe or not, effective law enforcement is.

And just for clarity, I am very much against gun control in the fashion SA seems to be going with it since we don't have effective law enforcement.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Actually that kind of proves my point though.

Gun control or the right to bear arms is not the main driver of being safe or not, effective law enforcement is.

And just for clarity, I am very much against gun control in the fashion SA seems to be going with it since we don't have effective law enforcement.
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And unfortunately we are pretty unlikely to see any kind of effective policing and a significant drop in crime in this country any time soon.
 
lexity said:
Although we do already see at least one, highly-armed, +3000-member community with very low rates of crime, in SA.
Click to expand...

Which community is that lexy?

Also be a gem and provide the evidence that this community having low rates of crime is related to its high level of armament.
 
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
You've missed my point, let me explain.
The only reason why the media, publishers, politicians etc use the term "gun violence" is again to demonise the object, or to push their narrative.
Click to expand...
To what end ?

Honest question here... do you think there is a real threat to freedom by nefarious entities seeking to take guns out of the hands of honest people.

OR

Do you not think its possible that the world is trying to reduce violent deaths by reducing the amount of guns in a society.
NoStepOnSnek88 said:
As I said there's no thing as gun violence, violence is violence, as for example you don't read or hear, knife violence, vehicular violence, explosive violence, bare fist violence etc
Click to expand...
Knife crime is a big issue in several countries in the world, you do hear about it all the time. I think you have blinkers on.

Vehicular violence is less prevalent (when being used as a weapon) and motor vehicles are highly policed all over the world.
(Ill also re-use the joke about riding a gun to work here just because I can)

it is a really odd argument you are trying to make here because explosives are also highly regulated, in SA they are also a real problem in violent crime, specifically robberies.

The only reason "gun violence" features in the media is because they are very effective weapons and there is a high correlation between lots of guns and lots of gun deaths (except for Switzerland - an anomaly).
Explosives are only really a problem in places where they are not strictly controlled.
Cars are not commonly used as weapons and when they are they are not effective and the perp is instantly apprehended.
Knives are an issue where guns are not freely available but much less effective and mostly used as a visual threat.

So if you did have a point - I missed it.
 
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