Routing incompetence

brendon9x

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I spend a lot of time using VNC to operate computers in the UK. So ping times (latency) directly affect my efficiency. 250ms translates to about 4 keystrokes a second whereas 180ms brings it up to 5.5. A 70ms drop in latency translates to a 40% improvement in productivity, something I'm always looking for.

So it is with a fair degree of interest that I look at my traceroute to London-based servers. It takes 15 hops to get to London, mostly because my packets make a point of always visiting New York before going to London. On the way back they do the same thing. With my little knowledge of South Africa's peering networks, this makes no sense. As far as I know, we're connected via two fibre networks:
  • SAT3 - West African fibre optic cable. Lands in Portugal
  • SAFE - East African/Asia fibre optic cable - Lands in Malaysia
More details can be found here. The SAT3/SAFE website even has a route latency calculator. This handy tool tells me that latency between Cape Town and Chipiona (Spain) is 62.98964ms. The peering arrangements to the UK and the US are alluded to in this awful powerpoint presentation. Lets assume 63ms needs to multiplied by 2 for return journey reasons (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That makes 126ms. Then add the time for a packet to go from Portugal to the UK which should be around the same as Joburg to Durban - lets make it 20ms to be super generous. That makes for an estimate ping time of 150ms, which would be a quantum leap in performance if we could ever get access to this.

I'm not routing expert, so I thought of trying to work out what the ping time should using another method. I used the VisualRoute demo to ping between London and New York. Ping time is 70ms. London to New York is 5500km. London to Cape Town is 9600km, therefore we should be able to go 70/5500*9600 which equals 120ms! That is less than half the latency I get on my unshaped ADSL account. What upsets me is that even though I'm paying R2000p/m for unshaped ADSL + bandwidth, I'm still getting a half-baked service.

It seems beyond doubt that we're getting screwed yet again, in new and interesting ways. Either our packets are being diverted to the US in Portugal or we're not using the fabled SAT3 cable at all. What is in question, yet again, is whether this can be explained as a malicious attempt by Telkom to cut costs at the expense of the Nation's users, or whether it is simply sheer incompetence. As usual, I doubt we'll ever find out.

Brendon
 
Then add the time for a packet to go from Portugal to the UK which should be around the same as Joburg to Durban - lets make it 20ms to be super generous.

AFAIK telkom do route via the US for adsl, i think the main reason for this is they use cogentco for the ADSL intl bandwidth (correct me if they have changed since)

250ms (as far as i could tell this is what you get now) is not bad in my eyes. In the old days of diginet we were happy with 350ms pings from ctn to uk

If you look at the pings from australia to the uk it should make you happy:

http://looking-glass.optus.net.au/cgi-bin/nph-looking-glass.pl
Performing trace to www.theregister.co.uk...
1 FastEth8-1-0.sb2.optus.net.au (192.168.34.3) 1.086 ms 0.697 ms 0.735 ms
2 203.208.148.89 (203.208.148.89) 158.325 ms 158.456 ms 158.465 ms
3 203.208.149.5 (203.208.149.5) 158.384 ms 203.208.149.1 (203.208.149.1) 164.256 ms 203.208.149.5 (203.208.149.5) 157.954 ms
4 ge-5-2-1.mpr4.pao1.us.above.net (64.125.13.5) 158.575 ms 164.773 ms 158.532 ms
5 64.125.29.126 (64.125.29.126) 162.965 ms 176.530 ms 162.440 ms
6 so-5-0-0.mpr1.lax9.us.above.net (64.125.30.130) 169.961 ms 170.427 ms 170.538 ms
7 so-3-0-0.mpr2.lax9.us.above.net (64.125.31.102) 167.126 ms 167.220 ms 167.082 ms
8 so-5-0-0.mpr1.iah1.us.above.net (64.125.29.94) 196.897 ms 202.812 ms 196.756 ms
9 so-0-0-0.mpr2.iah1.us.above.net (64.125.31.62) 199.934 ms 200.320 ms 207.616 ms
10 so-4-0-0.mpr1.atl6.us.above.net (64.125.29.69) 210.057 ms 274.972 ms 209.783 ms
11 so-0-0-0.mpr2.atl6.us.above.net (64.125.27.50) 213.118 ms 213.203 ms 213.210 ms
12 64.125.28.229 (64.125.28.229) 220.948 ms 220.987 ms 220.866 ms
13 so-1-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net (64.125.31.185) 296.175 ms 296.385 ms 296.927 ms
14 213-152-232-123.available.lhr.above.net (213.152.232.123) 316.308 ms 308.387 ms 308.300 ms
15 vl901.core1.lon.rackspace.net (83.138.138.35) 304.968 ms 306.940 ms 304.834 ms
16 g1-2.aggr1a.lon.rackspace.net (83.138.138.67) 304.777 ms 304.881 ms 304.779 ms
17 * * *
18 * * *

from TENET jhb (who pay alot more for bandwidth than you do :) )

1 <10 <10 <10 196.21.79.86 e1b.ten-mr0-wits.uni.net.za
2 19 20 20 155.232.207.29 bb-tenet-wits-ipnet.uni.net.za
3 38 38 39 155.232.210.6 tnet-0001-telkombell-ce-3.uni.net.za
4 46 46 46 155.232.200.185 int-tenet-wits-ipnet.uni.net.za
5 46 46 46 196.25.251.149 Unavailable
6 196 196 196 196.43.9.50 Unavailable
7 206 204 203 212.113.10.69 Unavailable
8 273 273 273 195.50.112.206 Unavailable
9 273 272 272 83.138.138.35 Unavailable
10 273 272 272 83.138.138.67 Unavailable
11 272 296 278 212.100.234.54 Unavailable

Remember, adsl is a consumer product, if you want mission critical and low latency you might want to look elsewhere :)
 
I always wonder why people use VNC.
First of all, its weak code -- versions =< 4.1.1 of RealVNC were recently found to be vulnerable of a no authentication exploit allowing anyone to gain full access to a pc running it.

VNC effectively renders everything as an image from my perception. Why not use a more effective solution like Terminal Services (Remote desktop). This protocol saves on bandwidth and works better with higher latency.

Alternatively, use Radmin v3.0 (www.famatech.com) - version 3 uses a new Video Locking driver which is incredibly fast!

VNC is old technology, and has been long surpassed by better options.

If the software is not under your control, then if you're really desperate try organise yourself a verizon unshaped or IS fiber account. Pings with these are in the 180-200ms range from joburg. I've noticed a considerable improvement recently of their Europe-bound latency on SAIX unshaped accounts however, aswell:

SAIX-UNSHAPED_tracert said:
Tracing route to irc.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.110.226]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 172.16.6.1
2 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms dsl-146-24-01.telkomadsl.co.za [165.146.24.1]
3 10 ms 11 ms 8 ms rrba-ip-esr-3-gig-6-1-0-606.telkom-ipnet.co.za [
196.43.10.146]
4 9 ms 10 ms 10 ms rrba-ip-esr-3-gig-6-1-0-606.telkom-ipnet.co.za [
196.43.10.146]
5 201 ms 201 ms 201 ms lon-ip-dir-telecity-pos-7-1.telkom-ipnet.co.za [
196.43.9.157]
6 202 ms 202 ms 202 ms ge9-16.br02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net [63.218.13.13]
7 202 ms 202 ms 202 ms 195.66.226.224
8 201 ms 202 ms 202 ms po0-1-651-cr.ixnlon.as35028.net [85.236.110.11]

9 202 ms 202 ms 202 ms irc.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.110.226]

Trace complete.
That trace would give me about 280ms on the 5th hop until about a month ago.

I personally think SAIX lowered the latency to compete with VerizonBusinessSA's low-latency unshaped option.

But what annoys me is that the latency on their apparently UNSHAPED option dropped. Why would it drop? Surely they must have been shaping it to an extent before? So much for their unshaped option being truly unshaped for the last 3 years. Just because the pings are 280ms instead of a shaped account's 360ms, doesn't mean that account is truly unshaped, but rather that it is superior. The price comparison however doesn't justify such a slight improvement. Port prioritization (at least, for UDP -- i play games on South African servers) is unnoticeable on shaped accounts? I have seen pings of 135ms to the UK from Cape Town, and as low as 160ms from Rosebank.

A rather old thread of mine, but it explains the issue for those who are now more interested: http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=46133

It is possible...
 
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Remember, adsl is a consumer product, if you want mission critical and low latency you might want to look elsewhere :)
ADSL may be a consumer product, but saix offers two seperate accounts. One being shaped, and the other unshaped. Ask yourself -- what is the concept purpose of them doing this? Is it effective to the consumer... why not? Is it effective to Telkom? Sure, because they rake in the bucks.

There is no reason why if theoretically you can ping 8ms the central saix routers with your dsl (as I do), you should not from there be able to get 128ms to the UK through the RTT's add-on latency.
I can achieve such latency with Verizon Unshaped accounts (at an exorbitant price, though.), so the infrastructure allows it.

This is the case for all first-world countries, but South Africa lags behind because we're controlled by a monopoly.
Because there is no competition, the service is not on the standard which it has the potential to be.

I'm assuming your trace from wits was made during office hours. TENET's routers ping 150ms to the UK after hours, showing what's possible:
UCT: http://www.tenet.ac.za/ping-graphs/
(WITS appends approximately 20-30ms to those pings, as all TENET bandwidth functions through Cape Town (telkom-ipnet's WBLV router), so WITS's bandwidth must first travel to Cape Town).

You're just accepting the second-rate service because like a typical South African, you've been brainwashed by Telkom's propaganda.
 
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If you look at the pings from australia to the uk it should make you happy:

...
Remember, adsl is a consumer product, if you want mission critical and low latency you might want to look elsewhere :)

Actually, the Australia figures make me sad. Sydney to London is 16900km meaning their performance by Cape Town standards is 304/169*96 which is 172ms. Once again, you'll struggle to find a country with a functioning economy that can beat our latency for ping/distance.

To answer your second point, I've already had someone from Telkom tell me that I should get a 4MB diginet line at a cost of one VW Golf per month. I'm not even going to argue this point further...
 
I always wonder why people use VNC.
First of all, its weak code -- versions =< 4.1.1 of RealVNC were recently found to be vulnerable of a no authentication exploit allowing anyone to gain full access to a pc running it.

VNC effectively renders everything as an image from my perception. Why not use a more effective solution like Terminal Services (Remote desktop). This protocol saves on bandwidth and works better with higher latency.

Actually, I'm using UltraVNC with the mirror video driver and kicks the pants off Remote Desktop. You're partially correct about VNC and images, but it also supports fill rects, and move rects (meaning scrolling is quick). With the hook driver it is really quick. Also, almost all the apps I deal with in London are Java apps meaning that they bypass the GDI entirely making Remote Desktop fall back on fullscreen blitting.

If the software is not under your control, then if you're really desperate try organise yourself a verizon unshaped or IS fiber account. Pings with these are in the 180-200ms range from joburg. I've noticed a considerable improvement recently of their Europe-bound latency on SAIX unshaped accounts however, aswell:

I will try it tomorrow.
 
I'm assuming your trace from wits was made during office hours. TENET's routers ping 150ms to the UK after hours, showing what's possible:
UCT: http://www.tenet.ac.za/ping-graphs/
(WITS appends approximately 20-30ms to those pings, as all TENET bandwidth functions through Cape Town (telkom-ipnet's WBLV router), so WITS's bandwidth must first travel to Cape Town).

I did the trace during office hours as thats when i assume brendon9x would have done his pings???

You're just accepting the second-rate service because like a typical South African, you've been brainwashed by Telkom's propaganda.

No need to insult ones inteligence here this is a discussion. I dont see any telkom propogander advertising latency? As far as i understand their meaning of unshped referes to rate limiting of certain protocols.. no?

Telkom could send adsl traffic through satellite like IS.. its not advertised as fiber adsl is it? (as said above open discussion, so if it is indeed advertised please show it to me and therefore i will learn from this, not just get insulted!)
 
I dont see any telkom propogander advertising latency? As far as i understand their meaning of unshped referes to rate limiting of certain protocols.. no?
Actually, when the unshaped service was launched, TELKOM specifically mentioned gamers and gaming applications as being amongst the target market. It was only after user complaints that they started toning down this aspect of their marketing. However, if you check there web-site, there is still residue about the promises of good latency.

Some evidence... mosey over to here. TELKOM is marketing the fact that they run all their Internet access services on the SAIX backbone.
The IP network has the most international optic fibre-based bandwidth out of Africa to the rest of the world, via the SAT-3/WASC/SAFE cable systems. Currently, SAIX runs 10 STM 1 links on these cable systems. Apart from providing ample international capacity, the use of optic fibre ensures extremely low latency and negligible service degradation... SAIX offers dial-up, analogue and ISDN services, ADSL, satellite-powered and dedicated Internet access services.

Then mosey over to Telkomsa.net and check what they say about unshaped ADSL (click on Our Products, >> ADSL>> Access Options)...
Unshaped... is typically designed for a niche market including, for example, your typical ForexTrader, specific gaming applications, secure work from home options and VPN’s.

In some of their media releases, as part of marketing their ADSL service, TELKOM quotes proudly from an article in the SACM which says...
"What sets it apart, though, is its reliable download speed and low latency when it comes to online gaming
.

There are many other examples. The biggest test though is to call TELKOM, tell them you need a low-latency internet service for gaming (if you can find someone who understands what the heck you mean) - 9/10 times you will be referred to their unshaped ADSL product.
 
Telkom could send adsl traffic through satellite like IS.. its not advertised as fiber adsl is it? (as said above open discussion, so if it is indeed advertised please show it to me and therefore i will learn from this, not just get insulted!)

Frankly, I agree in part with Leno (although excusing Telkom is bit of a strange way to make friends). Something the current cabinet has done very well is to let government-created third parties take the flak. It is easy to blame Telkom, but last year I went on a crusade to get someone in Telkom to tell me why I should pay R2000p/m when I was paying R150p/m in the UK, I spoke to many Telkom directors including the head of Internet. Most of them were very nice and understood my problem. The thing is that there wasn't any single individual that could have made a difference; managers report to directors; directors report profits to board, board reports to shareholders. Anyone who's not working their balls off to screw as many customers as they can will simply be replaced, including the CEO.

Ivy needs to take 50% of the blame and Thabo the rest for not sacking her the second time she used the word "colloquium". Privatisation creates efficiency. Monopolies screw the customer. Privatisation + monopolies = screwing the customer as efficiently as possible. Telkom is just the Frankenstein that Ivy and Thabo have created.

Having said that, Telkom does seem to respond to criticism when it gets serious, so flame away. The only other way to get better service is to emigrate - Mauritius sits on the SAFE cable - cocktails and broadband. If I spoke French I'd be there tomorrow.
 
The only other way to get better service is to emigrate - Mauritius sits on the SAFE cable - cocktails and broadband. If I spoke French I'd be there tomorrow.

My hope was in moving to aus, (yes original i know hehe) but the recent copyright laws that nearly got signed into law really got me rethinking that, seems there goverment are puppets of the movie and music industries who are trying to force feed their DRM rubbish to goverments hehe

Once i win the euro lotto im off to croatian islands tho :P haha

EDIT: spelling
 
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