Running a Guild

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Fayera

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Hi guys,

We started a new guild last night with a couple of EU buds and SA guys. I just need some tips on how to manage a Raid group in regards to Looting. I am thinking of using a DKP system? Anyone can let me know where I can get it and a " DKP guide for dummies" ^_^
 
Some guilds have found that DKP is too complicated, and it's not really necessary in most guilds, and people tend to save their DKP points instead of spending them.

If your aim is to ensure that the same lucky rollers don't always win the loot (a more fair loot distribution system), then you can try a system that simply gives those who did not get loot last time priority.

e.g.
- For every raid that you attend, where you don't get loot, you get 100 extra roll points.
- When you roll, you are then entitled to have your roll + those extra points.

In practice:

John does his first raid, and he rolls as per usual.
If he did not get any loot in that first raid, he earns a 100 roll multiplier.

John does his second raid, and he rolls and adds his multiplier: 100 + /roll.
If he did not get any loot in that second raid, he earns another 100 roll booster, his booster is now 200.

John does his third raid, and he rolls and adds his multiplier: 200 + /roll.
If he did not get any loot in that third raid, he earns another 100 roll booster, his booster is now 300.

If he still does not get any loot, then the next raid he will be rolling 300 + his roll.

Now the trick is to stop the booster at 200 or 300 or 400, depending on the size of the guild, so that saving booster is pointless, and the members actually spend them.

Also, you must have a few people in the guild who are tasked with recording raid attendance and loot winnings, and who keep track of this scoring system.
You should also "penalize" people who win 2 loots in a single raid, so perhaps allowing for -100 booster is a good idea, and this can also be used to penalise people who leave raids before they're called or don't show.
 
That sounds like a good idea...Just not sure how to keep track of the extra roll points or the loot everyone got.....Will see if Google gives me something. Thought some1 had a easy way and ad dons that do that anyway ^_^.

Thanks for the tip m8
 
Fayera said:
That sounds like a good idea...Just not sure how to keep track of the extra roll points or the loot everyone got.....Will see if Google gives me something. Thought some1 had a easy way and ad dons that do that anyway ^_^.

Thanks for the tip m8
Click to expand...

get everyone in the guild to download EPGP lootmaster addons. (go search about epgp)
use that is very fair and easy to manage.
deal done, thread closed.... moving along.
 
If its a 10 man raid/guild with friends then normal roll or the multiplier roll as posted above by davemc above works gr8 imo. If you guys are friends there will also be a feeling of "hey my bud can do more with that item, so lets pass" etc

25 man raids those sort of things don't really work that well. All systems have their pro's & cons. Personally I'd say I prefer EPGP. End of the story, nothing is perfect.

GL with the guild
 
somescrub said:
get everyone in the guild to download EPGP lootmaster addons. (go search about epgp)
use that is very fair and easy to manage.
deal done, thread closed.... moving along.
Click to expand...


Oh hell no... EPGP is the worst, crappiest looting system ever !!!!

The only person that really benefits from it, is the lootmaster since its incredibly easy to keep record of looting and it automates a lot of the grunt work.
EPGP is not lekker... yes its even worse than loot council !!!!

Best one I have been raiding under, was 0 sum EQDKP system... allowed new people that just joined the guild, to get access to loot as well.
 
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Pornolio said:
Oh hell no... EPGP is the worst, crappiest looting system ever !!!!

The only person that really benefits from it, is the lootmaster since its incredibly easy to keep record of looting and it automates a lot of the grunt work.
EPGP is not lekker... yes its even worse than loot council !!!!

Best one I have been raiding under, was 0 sum EQDKP system... allowed new people that just joined the guild, to get access to loot as well.
Click to expand...

Could you elobarate? We've found EPGP very successful in our guild.
 
yes please do, EPGP favours ppl who put the time and efford in and are not loot wh0res.

I agree it sux when a new member joins, but that can be fixed by giving starting EP and having the right level of decay. All loot systems have their problems. None is perfect. BUT it also depends if you know how to actually run such things. Putting a moron in charge does not work.

Seems like you had a bad experience with a crappy ML'er etc..
 
OK... let me tell you my personal experience I have had with this looting system.

The system works great if you are guild of people that dont really care about the upgrade path of your character... in other words you dont really care about theorycrafting or tweaking your character within your control. Your upgrade path is in the hand of this god forsaken looting system.

The system works with the principle that NO loot shall go to waste. Which is good and bad.
Though shall spend your EP and take an item when its your turn at the top of the PR list.
If though shall not spend your EP when something drops for you and you are at the top... then receive the full wrath of my decay... you WILL get nailed, and you will drop down the list - think of it as punishment. So ... regardless if its a 10 dps upgrade, or 300 dps upgrade you WILL take loot when it drops...

So, you can effectively be shnaaing your buddies that could have used an item which is a MASSIVE upgrade for them, but hey... the EPGP system said its your turn to get loot, so you will take it. Now that you have your item... STFU and go back to the bottom of the list, and dont open your mouth till you are top of the list and eligible for an upgrade again.

So now you sit with a guy with 100 % attendance... this guy raids always... but he really needs one drop. His EP gets sky-high, and now once the decay bat hits, you punish him hard. You are effectively punishing your most loyal raiders the hardest... now this is not great for raider morale... the more effort you put into your guilds raiding, the harder you get hit with this crap system.

The system makes people greedy, and you end up in a situation where you are unable to save up for an item that YOU know is a massive upgrade for you. Afterall the EPGP system will tell you when its your turn for loot... regardless if its a 10 dps or 300 dps upgrade.

Edit... all the top guilds that do use this system, override it via loot council to make sure BiS items are dealt with appropriately... but ... effectively you are using another system to fix this supposedly good system ??? making sense ?
 
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In the current guild I'm in the DKP works like this:

5 points for being on time and 5 points for staying till the end of the raid + 5 points per boss kill.

Now for the part that is different:
When you need an item you bet your max DKP. Even if you are the only person needing the itme and you have 400 DKP you lose all your DKP meaning that if you receive the item you end up with 0. This works really well, when you really need a specific item you save up for it. This eliminates the DKP farmers from always getting anything they want.

What used to happen is you would have players with 400 DKP and they just kept on needing every item that drops and they always stayed top on the DKP points so they always got the best gear first no matter what. With this system you will only get one item you really want and then need to save up again giving everyone a fair chance to gear up. And the raid group gears up equally meaning everyone in the raid gets gear during a raid. Not where you would have 2 people getting all the loot because the rest had too few DKP. The raid gears up equally and you progress quicker.

Well that is my take on it.
 
what we used to do in a old guild that works was this: socials and trial people couldnt roll unless none of the raiders needed the item. everyone that needs something, rolls. top roll wins. obviously people that cant use it, or are rolling on leather when they wear mail, are disqualified. tier tokens work on a list. if you win a token, u move to the bottom of the list, and you had to either have the badges or the actual tier piece to upgrade. and if you know the person who won an item is getting minimal upgrade, or you know they are geared to the teeth, you as ML have the right to give it to someone who gets a big upgrade. BOE items have to be equipped to prevent someone selling them, that defeats the purpose entirely

BECAUSE!

10 or 25 man raiding is about the team, not a person. however, you need people to be fair, and you also need to be fair. it was the best loot system I have ever used
 
Kaine said:
what we used to do in a old guild that works was this: socials and trial people couldnt roll unless none of the raiders needed the item. everyone that needs something, rolls. top roll wins. obviously people that cant use it, or are rolling on leather when they wear mail, are disqualified. tier tokens work on a list. if you win a token, u move to the bottom of the list, and you had to either have the badges or the actual tier piece to upgrade. and if you know the person who won an item is getting minimal upgrade, or you know they are geared to the teeth, you as ML have the right to give it to someone who gets a big upgrade. BOE items have to be equipped to prevent someone selling them, that defeats the purpose entirely

BECAUSE!

10 or 25 man raiding is about the team, not a person. however, you need people to be fair, and you also need to be fair. it was the best loot system I have ever used
Click to expand...

I don't like this, we used to do the same. But this means you only want new players to boost you into getting new gear. It's not fair. When we changed to the above one everyone was happy even the new guild people and they actually geared up to the rest of us guys pretty quickly.

Let me explain:

You have an ICC raid group with an average gearscore of 2900 (WoW-Heroes) and you get a new guy with 2700. Now if you raid ICC 25 and all the "older guildies" have pref you end up with them being 3200 and the new guy still on 2700. Which doesn't help your progression. And the new guildies churn you will have is pretty big as every week you need a new person to replace the other one who hated the fact that he raids but can't get gear. This will prevent you from progressing further if you are in ICC
 
Pitbull said:
In the current guild I'm in the DKP works like this:

5 points for being on time and 5 points for staying till the end of the raid + 5 points per boss kill.

Now for the part that is different:
When you need an item you bet your max DKP. Even if you are the only person needing the itme and you have 400 DKP you lose all your DKP meaning that if you receive the item you end up with 0. This works really well, when you really need a specific item you save up for it. This eliminates the DKP farmers from always getting anything they want.

What used to happen is you would have players with 400 DKP and they just kept on needing every item that drops and they always stayed top on the DKP points so they always got the best gear first no matter what. With this system you will only get one item you really want and then need to save up again giving everyone a fair chance to gear up. And the raid group gears up equally meaning everyone in the raid gets gear during a raid. Not where you would have 2 people getting all the loot because the rest had too few DKP. The raid gears up equally and you progress quicker.

Well that is my take on it.
Click to expand...

I used something similar in Vanilla days

+5 for attendance, +5 for boss, and something like +2.5 per hour there

Say T2 Helm dropped, you would then /roll <your DKP> - more raiding meant a greater chance of winning loot.
 
Oculate said:
I used something similar in Vanilla days

+5 for attendance, +5 for boss, and something like +2.5 per hour there

Say T2 Helm dropped, you would then /roll <your DKP> - more raiding meant a greater chance of winning loot.
Click to expand...

100% correct.

And you get an addon to manage this exact same looting system. I know our RL uses it before a roll you can /w him ?dkp
and you get your total. Then you can decide if you want to roll or not. It works like a charm and there is never any gear disputes.
 
regarding the system I used to use, socials very rarely got into raids with us. and sometimes when they did they got loot too, because the raiders already had, take for instance sp plate. how many pally healers are in a raid, 2, maybe 3 max. as for trialists, theres very few raid guilds I know of that will get loot while they are on trial
 
A system that I found more and more attractive is GDKP. Where you actually pay gold for items in a raid (auction style). With minimum prices for items (1000g for Armour 3000g for weapons, you can decide on prices...) total gold spend in raid gets split up among raiders after the raid.
This system seems to be working nice on my server with GDKP events being held server wide, with people joining just to make gold (high geared chars) and lower gear leveled alts with lots of gold to spend. Just need good leadership and organization. This seems to be working that well on my server that they farm ICC25 this way.

In our guild setup we do not make use of dkp at all. A simple need greed basis works for us, but it can only work if everyone is mature enough. We never had guild fights over loot.
 
Surely that cant be fair werries ? Guys which are gold capped because of their imba AH domination skills, would have an insane advantage. Guy raids once a week... once stuff drops he can effectively outbid everyone and walk out of a raid with 10 drops in one night ?
 
We use suicide kings for our 25 man raids using the SKGeo addon. New raiders gets placed at the bottom of the list and as the other players suicide they go up a position. This does mean that people won't suicide for small upgrades which may help somebody else who is lower on the ladder. If nobody wants the loot it goes to off spec with /roll. We used to work that armor class > position on the ladder but with BIS gear from ICC often being cloth for BOOMkins and shamans we changed it so that you can suicide if the item is BIS. BOE items must be equipped as soon as the player has it and we inspect the winners the next week to see if they still have it. People also get suicided after 4 weeks of not signing/pitching for raids.
 
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Pornolio said:
Surely that cant be fair werries ? Guys which are gold capped because of their imba AH domination skills, would have an insane advantage. Guy raids once a week... once stuff drops he can effectively outbid everyone and walk out of a raid with 10 drops in one night ?
Click to expand...

GDKP works well for pugs imo though I doubt it would work for a guild. Basically it means whether you get gear or not during a run - you are still rewarded at the end of the raid. It also means the pug tends to get further as firstly you get quite a few better geared guys attending purely for gold. Secondly once there is a bit of a gold stockpile left - nobody wants to abandon the group early as it means they won't get their share of the gold which can amount to quite a bit. The last run I attended wasn't really successful by most server standards (only 10/12 with gunship on heroic) but it did go a few bosses further then most 25 man pugs on our server and the pot was 115k at the end of the night so about 4.6k gold per person though obviously some guys had spent far in excess of that.

GDKP runs work best when you have a couple of people with lots of gold and a number of skilled/geared players to drag them through content. Its kind of mercenary but it works out well for pugs especially with the icc buff making it so much easier to get to the end bosses.
 
Pornolio said:
Surely that cant be fair werries ? Guys which are gold capped because of their imba AH domination skills, would have an insane advantage. Guy raids once a week... once stuff drops he can effectively outbid everyone and walk out of a raid with 10 drops in one night ?
Click to expand...

Hi Porn!
Yes I thought of that too, but it still is an auctioning system. Person X with capped gold will pay more for items and most likely will get items first. But as X pays more for items Person Y gets richer for just raiding, he does not get items as fast but the raid is still worthwhile in gold. Person X can burn through his gold quite fast if he keeps overpaying for stuff (the usual AH buffs don't like to over pay for anything ;) ).
I just find this loot system interesting (never tried it myself), I have seen though that the guys participating in the Shadowsong raids using GDKP have been making on average 6k per raid night and some items have sold for around 30k! Participating 4 weeks not spending anything and you are reeking in gold yourself, and be able to bid for that BiS item you want.

For people like me that spend almost 2 years "just" raiding making money of it is quite a nice change...
 
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