Running a Guild

Anyone ever wondered why there seems to be so much infighting in SA guilds :D

I think it is a South African thing to find every possible reason for disagreement even though there is agreement on 95% of the issues. As opposed to the European way of simply ignoring the minor disagreements.

Makes for good drama though :D
 
zippy said:
Anyone ever wondered why there seems to be so much infighting in SA guilds :D

I think it is a South African thing to find every possible reason for disagreement even though there is agreement on 95% of the issues. As opposed to the European way of simply ignoring the minor disagreements.

Makes for good drama though :D
Click to expand...
As a South African you are not allowed to tell the truth so brutally like that!! :P

ps. go back to finding problems and starting fights :P
 
Personally I think its a good indicator of a loot system if it discourages DKP hoarding or the equivalent and for me that is potentially an advantage of EPGP. Possibly some guys play it decently when it comes to DKP hoarding and make informed decisions but a lot of the guys I raided with previously would rather have had items de'ed then take an upgrade if it affects their chance of being top on DKP or loot priority when the uber rare trinket or weapon finally dropped. That sort of attitude affects guild progress as a whole.

That said its not specific to any particular loot system - back when I was helping out with loot council - we had this mage who in Naxx who used to remind us that he was passing on every item including items that were definite upgrades. Then he'd remind us whenever he wanted something about how many items he had passed on. The toy throwing was quite spectacular when we awarded an item to somebody who wasn't blatantly trying to manipulate us.
 
Fair enough twixt... but passing on everything the whole time, gimps your own personal dps growth in your example mentioned. So even if you decide to take the path of saving your DKP for that special item, it comes at a price.
I completely agree that its wrong to complain about bad personal dps if you choose to pass on items. But still, its your DKP, you are free to spend it as you wish.

If you wish to hold back and not get any upgrades for months... you are screwing yourself. Since you end up being benched more than the other "mages" as in your example mentioned... since he wont be able to produce the numbers the other mages with better gear are reaching.

The bottom line is : Sensible looting... and thats what my personal issue with EPGP is.
 
As much as I hate to agree with Pornolio, I have to. When you work hard to earn DKP or Cash, it is your full right to spend it where you want. In real life I chose not to spend money on high rent and a car, instead stayed in a Commune to pay minimal rent (way cheaper than most places I hear or know about) and that money that I saved went straight into a short term investment fund and soon I will be able to afford a house instead of a flat.

So yeah I was gimping my living style for a while, but I am getting exactly what I wanted, and yes it is the same as getting that special trinket or whatever. In game there are many methods to obtain gear to help you keep up with all the other guys taking the loot. In my case, I used to be at the top of the dmg meter anyways, because once you are at the top its easy to stay there, but more importantly, most loot will be worth more to the guild been passed along to the other members so that when I am not there the day those guys won't gimp the raid when they take my spot for the evening. The more people with loot the in the guild, the bigger the pool that can help the guild progress.
 
Firstly I have never raided under EPGP, it wouldn't be my first choice system either and I have absolutely no desire to defend it, my preference has always been for loot council which albeit slower and more open to accusations of bias, allows for a lot more intervention and control.

Back to dkp hoarding - I really don't have a problem with educated, skilled players choosing their own upgrade paths but possibly due to poor recruitment - I've seen a lot of guys pass on real upgrades simply because they want to hoard dkp so that they are the first person to get some rare item. When you're running a guild - your motivation is the guild's progression and not individuals and personally I find that kind of attitude a bit selfish and stupid. Anyway it was easy enough to discourage that when running a loot council because then you pm the oke and question his decision and hopefully you're proven wrong - the oke has done all the research/spreadsheets and determined that the item is a 50dps upgrade for his build as opposed to the shoulders that drop off the next boss which is a 500 dps upgrade or sometimes the guy is being genuinely kind and he's inspected the other hunter and seen that its a much bigger upgrade for them and he's passing to make the team stronger. Sometimes though you're proven right and you act to prevent it becoming a problem.

TLDR: I don't like DKP hoarding, I think its potentially bad for guild progress and thus I like to discourage it.
 
Hehehe ok... I am opening myself for a world of flaming now... but am I correct in stating the following in light of your post twixt ?

"Back to dkp hoarding - I really don't have a problem with educated, skilled players choosing their own upgrade paths but possibly due to poor recruitment - I've seen a lot of guys pass on real upgrades simply because they want to hoard dkp so that they are the first person to get some rare item. "

Can we safely conclude that EPGP is for guilds with dumbass raiders ?? it caters for retard raiders ? ;-p

PS. at the end of the day, if it works for you ... fine. If it doesnt, use something else.
 
loot whores will whore.
players will play
emo kids will emo
trolls will troll

no matter what system is used.
A middle ground with intervention is required.
The system you use is entirely up to you it still doesnt change the above.

A guild principle we have is a upgrade is a upgrade, but then theres nothing wrong with me deciding whats a upgrade for me.

Personally i dont care what loot i get. if it has the stats i'm after in more quantity than what i have I choose main spec.
If i get it great, if someoen else gets it thats fine too cause they will enjoy it and get use out of it.

I still get to raid with my guildies and friends. i attend the guild raids casue I enjoy the poeple, banter and the experience.
i do not raid for the loot, thats just a means to make the encounters easier and to be prepared for harder content.

you see the reason I struggle to see your point is I dont bellieve in epeen. when you like to pose and care more about your Gearscore than the social aspect and team work in a MMO thats when you tend towards the opinions voiced in this thread.

it has been said that with epgp you cant accumulate EP to get that one drop you want. i disagree, i can and often do.
You say that the decay screws you. I cant agree, it is flat across the board, sure ppl with higher EP will get decay'd more, but then they had more, accumulate more and will still stay at or near the top in priority.

It's said you cant get the best gear for your toon. So how come I have, continue to and so does every other raider in our guild?
answer: cause we care about our guild, guildies and our raid performance, as a team. there is no I in team.

Before we implemented epgp we had endless loot dramas and spent more time negotiating loot assignment that actually killing bosses, we put epgp in place, loot dramas dissapeared and loot gets assigned really quickly.

EPGP isnt DKP it isnt a currency and it isnt yours to do with as you please, this is another selfish and short sighted approach.
EPGP is a way for the master looter to determine who has priority due to their commitment level to the guild's shared and common objectives. It gives them a indicator to determine who should get a item in the case of > 1 person wanting it.
One hopes common sense prevails.

to sum up your gear doesnt matter, the raids gear is what matters.
just like getting/keeping those sunders up is more important than individual dps.
you will eventually get all the gear you want if you commit to the raid schedule and put in the effort.


this is kinda dependant on having a stable guild with reliable raiding pool.
i wouldnt suggest this system for a high turnover or new guild, but i may be wrong
 
So in the end we agree to disagree...

I must be honest, before I joined my current guild, EPGP was the one system I never had any experience in, now that I have experienced it, I can make an honest opinion about it.... but if I ever land in a situation where I have to shop for another guild... EPGP as a looting system would be one of the biggest DONT GO THERE warnings to me personally as a raider. I joined my guild with the system, so I have to fall in with it, and adhere to the rules no matter how much I disagree on them.

Edit - One final closing statement from me... if you honestly believe me to be a GS retard.... you seriously have no idea where I am coming from about any of my previous posts... GS retards, are the worst of the worst inbreds in my books....
 
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I think GS is cool, its just another tool like making fake achievements to get into PUGs, that is if you abuse it correctly :)
 
Pornolio said:
Can we safely conclude that EPGP is for guilds with dumbass raiders ?? it caters for retard raiders ? ;-p
Click to expand...

You know I seem to recall that FoA now uses EPGP....

*Waits for fireworks*
 
Hehehe ... oh there is still some fun left on these Wow threads :)

@ Tinuva - Oh I do have a full elemental shaman set on my hunter I keep handy esspecially for the GS retards :-p
Slapped a few crap gems in... ****ty enchants... Ahhh it IS indeed fun to mess around with those apes hehe.
 
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Counting down the minutes here man... gonna make some pub owners rich tonight... ahh at least they will be able to put their daughters through university... bless their little hearts....
 
Ima gonna get my RS25 achievement tonite! but beer will be dranken (diz wun iz 4 teh gramer poliz :D) tis a small price to pay
 
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I must agree with somescrub here, wow is a team game, the loot you get is for helping the raid team progress. Every upgrade helps the raid team imo.
 
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