SA in 'Haiti-like' situation

[daveza]

http://www.news24.com/Content/South...e/28-01-2010-02-07/SA_in_Haiti-like_situation

Cape Town - South Africa is dealing with a "Haiti like situation" every day with squatters around the country enduring floods, fires and disease, Human Settlements Minister Tokyo Sexwale said on Thursday.

"We are dealing every day with a manmade disaster," Sexwale said during a briefing to Parliament's human settlements committee.

"It is Haiti every day. The earth broke there. Here the earth is not broken, but consequences are the same. It is a disaster."

Sexwale said that in 1994 there were around 300 informal settlements in South Africa, while today there were more than 2 600.



The growth of informal settlements was not the fault of the government, he said.

"People have run away from many push factors."

"These are refugees in our own country. It is a disaster. This is disaster management, but with a view of creating assets, with a view of giving those people a better quality of life."

People were also being pulled towards built-up areas to find work, to reconnect with families broken up by single cell hostel systems created by mining houses and to be closer to amenities.

"They are like all of us. They want schools, cinemas. They want shopping malls. So when they park next to a highway don't blame them. They go [to] the highway because it brings them closer to getting bread."

Something wrong with this argument.

If all these newcomers have deserted their homes in Transkei etc then surely you reduce the provincial budget for the denuded territories and re-allocate the resources to where they have migrated to. Or is budget surplus in these areas going to affirmative shopping...

If there are no amenities in the areas they moved from whose fault is that ?

 

[AnomalyNexus]

Something wrong with this argument.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" -Mark Twain

Stats can be made to show pretty much anything. The problem is that he is comparing the number of settlements instead of the number of people. Before '94 the people were forced to live in the designated settlements. After that the restrictions were removed and they spread out to get away from the crowding.

It shows absolutely nothing. The part about the amenities is problematic too. You just can't build a solid interpretation on top of stats if the stats are BS.

Pretty weak coming from Sexwale. Trying to ride on the coattails of a real natural disaster & then using BS stats on top of that.

 

[JungleBoy]

Sexwale said that in 1994 there were around 300 informal settlements in South Africa, while today there were more than 2 600.

This is a very misleading citation by the honourable minister. It would have made more sense for Sexwale to quote the ratio between people who lived in formal housing vs people who lived in informal houses (rural mud huts included). I am of the opinion that rural mud huts have been replaced by shacks on the outskirts of the cities. You can build a million RDP houses a year and the number of shacks will keep growing until perhaps this rapid rural to city migration slows or stops. Unfortunately, this is typical of a develping country...e.g. If you go to places like Mexico City, Sao Paulo you'll find that they are faced with similar shortages of formal houses.

 

[Nerfherder]

300 informal settlements ??

Where, in the first road of Alex ?

There were never 300 informal settlements in SA, not even in the stone age.

 

[ToxicBunny]

There were easily 300 in 1994.. and I can believe the 2600 claim now.

I can count at least 20 that I know of in and around Durban alone...

But that doesn't mean much, Sexwale's argument is ignoring WAY too many factors if you ask me.

 

[Nerfherder]

Oh ok, they mean like Alex is one informal settlement, diepsloot is another. I was thinking along the line of one shack is an informal settlement.

That makes more sense

 

[noxibox]

It isn't surprising. Rapid urbanisation has ugly consequences. I'm not sure there'd be many examples of countries that handled this well. But I also cannot help, but be sure that it has been made worse by the widespread laziness/incompetence evident in many areas of government.

I think he also conveniently ignores the reality that at best life for most Haitians was horrible before the disaster. And they're much worse now.

 

[Alan]

If they're unhappy with their current circumstances in the urban "informal settlements" then they must go back to where they originally came from. Why must we now pay for developing infrastructure for them. Especially when they are incapable of maintaining even the most basic standards of living themselves.


I've heard that the ANC deliberately enticed people in the Transkei to move down to CT to increase their voter base there.

 

[JungleBoy]

If they're unhappy with their current circumstances in the urban "informal settlements" then they must go back to where they originally came from. Why must we now pay for developing infrastructure for them. Especially when they are incapable of maintaining even the most basic standards of living themselves.


I've heard that the ANC deliberately enticed people in the Transkei to move down to CT to increase their voter base there.

I doubt the integrity of your sources.
How about those that move from the former Transkei to PE, EL, etc.
Urbanisation is inevitable as long as there is no infrastructure develpment in the rural areas.
Rural children grow up and have to further their education or find work in the cities and there's never going to be enough formal housing for them.

 

[BBSA]

I am not sure if the governments current strategy is working. To give free houses to everybody is just not a sustainable situation. You will give a house to one family but it will attract ten other families who wants the same. They are creating a nation of lazy beggars.

I do understand that the government must invest in the poor and previously disadvantage but I'm not sure they are going about it in the correct way. Would it not be better to give the poor micro loans and educate them to provide for themselves. This principle has actually work well in India and other poor countries.

 

[Vrotappel]

Typical African logic - blame farmers for their own failures. Once they chased away the farmers and no longer have food they will find something else to blame.

Boere maak SA soos Haïti

Baie van die mense wat hulle nou in plakkerskampe bevind, is daar omdat “baie boere miljoene swart mense” van hul plase afgejaag het.

So het mnr. Tokyo Sexwale, minister van huisvesting, gister aan die parlementêre komitee oor dié portefeulje gesê.

Wonder if Tokyo would let murderers and rapists stay on his farm.

 

[zippy]

I am not sure if the governments current strategy is working. To give free houses to everybody is just not a sustainable situation. You will give a house to one family but it will attract ten other families who wants the same. They are creating a nation of lazy beggars.

I do understand that the government must invest in the poor and previously disadvantage but I'm not sure they are going about it in the correct way. Would it not be better to give the poor micro loans and educate them to provide for themselves. This principle has actually work well in India and other poor countries.

No point in giving anyone a loan if they cant pay it back. The problem is employment. No job, no money, no food, no home. Poor. You have to give them a grant/benefit or whatever, and get employment going. Create public works projects for them or something. Alternatively just ignore them and act suprised when they resort to crime. Doing nothing is probably the worse option.

 

[happychappy]

I mean land reform, anc propaganda of violence against white farmers and the fact that the government has effectively stolen so much of the money that needed to go to rural development has nothing to do with the current crises?

We are currently giving grants to what 7 000 000 people? that's more people than there are tax payers

Building thousands of RDP houses right next to towns and cities, allowing mr.criminal to move in right next to mr.taxpayer with his own money!

And the cherry on the cake is that with the current population growth, the government could never be able to build enough houses fast enough.

This will all lead to more white flight.. ..|.. sex-kwaale

 

[zippy]

I thought ol' sex-whale was the fav ANC politician of whites ?

on topic: You need to give these grants, but also need to be creating employment opportunities. The infrastructure in South Africa is in need of upgrading/resurrecting. In theory this should be a golden opportunity.

1. Give these people aid in the form of food, grants, low cost, but decent housing.
2. Get them on training programs
3. Get them working on public projects

Instead the government is just throwing money at them to buy their votes, and not following this up with training and works programs. Its really quite simple. Its been done in the US, Europe, Asia many times. Its not rocket science. It just takes political will and management. You have to wonder whether there is a hidden agenda. i.e. Buy their votes and make sure they do not get educated so that we can continue to bull**** them ???

 

[BBSA]

No point in giving anyone a loan if they cant pay it back. The problem is employment. No job, no money, no food, no home. Poor. You have to give them a grant/benefit or whatever, and get employment going. Create public works projects for them or something. Alternatively just ignore them and act suprised when they resort to crime. Doing nothing is probably the worse option.

In India they gave them loans and helped them to start small businesses. After some time they were able to pay back the loans. These people learn to provide for themselves.

 

[Albereth]

Oh ok, they mean like Alex is one informal settlement, diepsloot is another. I was thinking along the line of one shack is an informal settlement.

That makes more sense

Would Alex be an informal settlement?

 

[Alan]

I thought ol' sex-whale was the fav ANC politician of whites ?

on topic: You need to give these grants, but also need to be creating employment opportunities. The infrastructure in South Africa is in need of upgrading/resurrecting. In theory this should be a golden opportunity.

1. Give these people aid in the form of food, grants, low cost, but decent housing.
2. Get them on training programs
3. Get them working on public projects

Instead the government is just throwing money at them to buy their votes, and not following this up with training and works programs. Its really quite simple. Its been done in the US, Europe, Asia many times. Its not rocket science. It just takes political will and management. You have to wonder whether there is a hidden agenda. i.e. Buy their votes and make sure they do not get educated so that we can continue to bull**** them ???

Exactly.

 

[noxibox]

In India they cave them loans and helped them to start small businesses. After some time they were able to pay back the loans. These people learn to provide for themselves.

There is an organisation that does that. Can't remember their name.

You have to wonder whether there is a hidden agenda. i.e. Buy their votes and make sure they do not get educated so that we can continue to bull**** them ???

More likely a simple failure to have a proper plan, commit to it and follow through. All politicians bullsh*t the population anywhere you go.

I am not sure if the governments current strategy is working. To give free houses to everybody is just not a sustainable situation. You will give a house to one family but it will attract ten other families who wants the same. They are creating a nation of lazy beggars.

I do understand that the government must invest in the poor and previously disadvantage but I'm not sure they are going about it in the correct way. Would it not be better to give the poor micro loans and educate them to provide for themselves. This principle has actually work well in India and other poor countries.

I think people in general actually prefer to provide for themselves. There'll always be some lazy spongers, but in my experience people like earning and doing.

Who is building these houses? It would make sense to train people in the various skills involved, have them build the houses and have them take responsibility for doing it well. Let them be proud of the fact they built their own houses and developed skills.

 

[BBSA]

I think people in general actually prefer to provide for themselves. There'll always be some lazy spongers, but in my experience people like earning and doing.

I agree, but the government is taking that away from many South Africans by all the free handouts. The only way you can have any self-worth is if you work for what you have.

I think the ANC actually want a nation who is dependant on them. It is so sad, many will never be able to provide for themselves.