SA Post Office testing hydrogen-powered scooters

[Jamie McKane]

SA Post Office testing hydrogen-powered scooters

South Africa is currently working on a number of new transport technologies as it slowly moves away from petrol and diesel-based engines.

This is according to the Department of Transport’s recently published Green Strategy document which outlines government’s plans to move to these new technologies by the year 2030.

[Businesstech]

 

[mister]

From snails to hydrogen powered scooters? quite the leap there...

Edit: by 2030... love the long term vision... hopefully my outstanding mail from last year will be delivered by then too.

 

[Happy Days]

Are there any commercially-available scooters like this?

 

[Jola]

Yeah, right, the local mailmen have given up on bicycles and are walking again.

I assume that bicycle maintenance is too expensive.

But not that they have anything to deliver ...

 

[system32]

From my understanding, electric is the way to go (Eskom issues aside).
Hydrogen is usually extracted from Oil.
Extracting hydrogen via electrolysis is very expensive.

Electricity can be clean if it is made from renewable Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Tidal, etc

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

R400 000 per scooter seems a little steep

 

[joker08]

From my understanding, electric is the way to go (Eskom issues aside).
Hydrogen is usually extracted from Oil.
Extracting hydrogen via electrolysis is very expensive.

Electricity can be clean if it is made from renewable Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Tidal, etc

I have mostly seen hydrogen extraction by putting calcium carbide in water.

 

[joker08]

I have mostly seen hydrogen extraction by putting calcium carbide in water.

Edit: my bad that's for acetylene gas not hydrogen

 

[Purply]

R400 000 per scooter seems a little steep

Slap on an extra 100k per scooter for the cadres and they'll order 10 000 no problem.

 

[konfab]

From my understanding, electric is the way to go (Eskom issues aside).
Hydrogen is usually extracted from Oil.
Extracting hydrogen via electrolysis is very expensive.

Electricity can be clean if it is made from renewable Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Tidal, etc

Electricity is not the way to go.
If you look at the specific energy, electricity with batteries is garbage
In terms of actual amounts, Petrol has 46.4 MJ/kg
Lithium ion batteries are at 0.875 MJ/kg

Hydrogren will probably sit in the middle once you take into account how much the storage is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

 

[d0b33]

NO. NO. NO.

 

[ekske1]

R400 000 per scooter seems a little steep

// tender approval high

 

[SkippyRamirez]

So the post office mastered the art of envelope/parcel delivery, and now decides to dabble in scootering? Impressive.

 

[system32]

Electricity is not the way to go.
If you look at the specific energy, electricity with batteries is garbage
In terms of actual amounts, Petrol has 46.4 MJ/kg
Lithium ion batteries are at 0.875 MJ/kg

Hydrogren will probably sit in the middle once you take into account how much the storage is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

I'm not sure the energy density is a good measure for road transport.
Sure the Lithium battery weighs more than 2l of petrol, but a petrol engine + gears + exhaust weigh more than an electric motor - the overall weight of the scooter is similar.
Perhaps for flying transport where weight is important.
New electric scooters have a range 200km, some with swappable batteries.
Much cheaper to operate and no maintenance.
Charge at home or work.

See
https://ca.e-scooter.co/kymco-many-110-ev/
for technical details.
Specifications
Brand KYMCO
Model Many 110 EV
Speed 25 and 45 km/h
Power 3.2 kW (4.3 hp)
Weight 94 kg
Battery Lithium (LFP) - Removable battery
Range 200 km
Charge Time 1 hours

 

[konfab]

I'm not sure the energy density is a good measure for road transport.
Sure the Lithium battery weighs more than 2l of petrol, but a petrol engine + gears + exhaust way more than an electric motor - the overall weight of the scooter is similar.

If you wanted to be fair the calculation would be:
Battery+Electric motors vs Fuel tank+Fuel+Engine+gears.
In a Tesla (who have the best battery tech in the business)
Battery has a mass of 540 kg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

A petrol engine with 270kW (roughly the same as the Tesla) roughly weighs about 250kg.
http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/2915-how-many-kgs-for-a-ba-engien/
So no.

Perhaps for flying transport where weight is important.

.
Please, go and put 400 kg of concrete in your car and see how it affects the performance.
There is this concept called kinetic energy.
E_k= 1/2 mV^2

If you only have a certain amount of energy, the velocity is limited by its mass

This is why your scooter only goes up to 45km/h, whilst my Chinesium-special motorbike could hit 110. And filling up only took 5 minutes.

Also the emissions from scooters is negligible when compared to other forms of transport, and maintenance on most bikes and scooters mainly sits with the wheels, chain and brakes. Engines are usually aircooled and need only the occasional oil and sparkplug change.

Perhaps for flying transport where weight is important.
New electric scooters have a range 200km, some with swappable batteries.
Much cheaper to operate and no maintenance.
Charge at home or work.

See
https://ca.e-scooter.co/kymco-many-110-ev/
for technical details.
Specifications
Brand KYMCO
Model Many 110 EV
Speed 25 and 45 km/h
Power 3.2 kW (4.3 hp)
Weight 94 kg
Battery Lithium (LFP) - Removable battery
Range 200 km
Charge Time 1 hours

 

[HennieWelkom]

you know what I'm going to go out on a limb and say the carbon footprint of state-owned-enterprises is the last thing on the tax-payers mind.

 

[Milano]

By 2030, so we can expect the various corruption commissions and investigations to be under way by around 2045.

 

[namzsteve]

Is this a joke? How about spending that money on improving the current system without adding things that are going to get stolen and sold for R10 in town!!!

 

[access]

Yeah, right, the local mailmen have given up on bicycles and are walking again.

I assume that bicycle maintenance is too expensive.

But not that they have anything to deliver ...

the only maintenance done to the bicycles is what the mailman can afford himself, there is nobody looking after the bicycles for them. a family member had to repair and replace parts for them before, take them and the bicycle to the shop.

they keep getting promised a budget for the bicycles but it never appears. some show up for work without any means to get to their area. stacks of broken bikes.

 

[access]

If you wanted to be fair the calculation would be:
Battery+Electric motors vs Fuel tank+Fuel+Engine+gears.
In a Tesla (who have the best battery tech in the business)
Battery has a mass of 540 kg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

A petrol engine with 270kW (roughly the same as the Tesla) roughly weighs about 250kg.
http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/2915-how-many-kgs-for-a-ba-engien/
So no.


.
Please, go and put 400 kg of concrete in your car and see how it affects the performance.
There is this concept called kinetic energy.
E_k= 1/2 mV^2

If you only have a certain amount of energy, the velocity is limited by its mass

This is why your scooter only goes up to 45km/h, whilst my Chinesium-special motorbike could hit 110. And filling up only took 5 minutes.

Also the emissions from scooters is negligible when compared to other forms of transport, and maintenance on most bikes and scooters mainly sits with the wheels, chain and brakes. Engines are usually aircooled and need only the occasional oil and sparkplug change.

then theres always this:

https://c21.phas.ubc.ca/article/energy-use-cars-5-gasoline-cars-vs-electric-cars

energy consumption of a gasoline car = (0.076l/km)(32mj/l) = 2.4mj for each km travelled

energy consumption of eletric car = 0.6mj/(0.86)(0.85) = 0.82mj for each km travelled

and this:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/10/electric-car-myth-buster-efficiency/

One of the other common assertions we hear all the time from the anti-EV crowd is that electric cars are no more efficient than cars powered by internal combustion engines. Let’s take a closer look at that claim. According to the US Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, “EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.”

An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient. That means it converts that percentage of the electricity provided to it into useful work. The difference between the efficiency of the motor and the overall efficiency of an electric car is accounted for losses attributed to charging and discharging the battery and, for some charging (for some cars), converting AC to DC current and back again.

so it does indeed appear electric is the way to go. and its just getting better

oh and heres a graph