Samsung Galaxy S5

Viva said:
I share your sentiments. But it seems we are in the minority. Most people appreciate Google's emphasis on on-screen buttons.

For the time being, I'm perfectly happy to use the capacitive buttons on the S4. I just wish the home button was capacitive too (the pressing of a physical button has a cheapish feel to it).
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I prefer the tactile home button over a capacitive one. But I agree, I'd much rather have the capacitive buttons over on-screen buttons any day.
 
Bryn26 said:
Yes, but as long as large bezels are around they may as well be fully utilised. Immersive mode is a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.
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Actually, the problem to begin with was hardware vendors not keeping a consistent layout with their buttons, which created inconsistent use cases for different devices- for example, one device may offer a menu key, while another device will offer a recent apps key. It was unnecessarily confusing, and breaks the fundamental flow of using the OS. It is why so many flock to iOS- because of the consistency of the UI.

Having on screen buttons, along with Google's menu and overflow button unification does render most hardware keys redundant. Immersive mode was a progressive step taken in the unification and development of the Android UI.

Reliability is only an issue if a device has shoddy build quality.
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This is not true- even iOS has assistive touch built in due to the high rate of failure of the home button. The mighty Samsung produce some shoddy hardware buttons too. It reduces the inherent reliability of the device, because it is an extra hardware component that could fail.

The Z2 is a prime example - side by side with an S4 it is clear which layout makes more sense.
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To owners of Samsung devices, yes. But I've already explained this above. FWIW- many people would disagree with you on this. Samsung have also been derided for years for their design choices, both from a hardware and software standpoint. They would certainly not be the company I looked at if I wanted to deem a UI flow pattern as most sensible, and that is inclusive of the initial touchpoint.

I also don't like the idea of having a virtual home button below the space bar when typing.
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To each their own. It's been an Android design standard since ICS, though. Samsung are the only ones who seem intent on not toeing the line with this, or at least trying to.
 
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Maverick Jester said:
Actually, the problem to begin with was hardware vendors not keeping a consistent layout with their buttons, which created inconsistent use cases for different devices- for example, one device may offer a menu key, while another device will offer a recent apps key. It was unnecessarily confusing, and breaks the fundamental flow of using the OS. It is why so many flock to iOS- because of the consistency of the UI.

Having on screen buttons, along with Google's menu and overflow button unification does render most hardware keys redundant. Immersive mode was a progressive step taken in the unification and development of the Android UI.



This is not true- even iOS has assistive touch built in due to the high rate of failure of the home button. The mighty Samsung produce some shoddy hardware buttons too. It reduces the inherent reliability of the device, because it is an extra hardware component that could fail.



To owners of Samsung devices, yes. But I've already explained this above. FWIW- many people would disagree with you on this. Samsung have also been derided for years for their design choices, both from a hardware and software standpoint. They would certainly not be the company I looked at if I wanted to deem a UI flow pattern as most sensible, and that is inclusive of the initial touchpoint.



To each their own. It's been an Android design standard since ICS, though. Samsung are the only ones who seem intent on not toeing the line with this, or at least trying to.
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Apple's UI isn't consistent though. Some apps get their settings options listed in settings, and others require delving around inside the app. Helping my step-dad with his iPhone 4s gives me a serious headache.

Instead of wasting screen space with virtual buttons (and it is a waste - I've played around plenty with a G2), why didn't Google just require a specific capacitive or tactile button layout?

I understand that on-screen buttons will always be more durable than hardware ones, but hardware buttons have been perfectly fine in all the devices I've ever owned. Only my dad's LG L9 has a terribad home button, and that's probably because the phone is build badly all over. It's extremely uncommon to have purely capacitive navigation buttons unfortuntely, and capacitive is way more reliable than tactile - if Google demanded specific capacitive buttons then the Android experience would be so much better off.

My point with the spacebar and home button was that the risk of accidentally hitting the home button must be pretty high with the buttons so close together. It seems to be objectively crap design.
 
Bryn26 said:
Apple's UI isn't consistent though. Some apps get their settings options listed in settings, and others require delving around inside the app. Helping my step-dad with his iPhone 4s gives me a serious headache.
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I agree with you to an extent. There is a consistency with the Apple UI, given that its sandboxed nature dictates the location of application settings. Doesn't make it less frustrating to use, for sure.

Instead of wasting screen space with virtual buttons (and it is a waste - I've played around plenty with a G2), why didn't Google just require a specific capacitive or tactile button layout?
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Because Android is an open source OS, even if it is owned by Google, and telling the vendors how to build the devices would probably go against the agreements set in place by the OHA. Design guidelines being controlled in house are far easier to manage and execute than dictating to your vendors as to how they can build their devices, in any event.

On top of it- the different vendors use the buttons for different reasons, because of their own overlying UI (eg how Sense 5 uses a different layout to Touchwiz). The best way to unify the way Android should ideally look, is for Google to present that themselves.

The Ubuntu Touch UI, is probably the best executed that I have seen, with its use of swipes- it is fluid and really shows you that buttons are legacy components. WebOS too, had this done well. Android is still a bit broken in this aspect (menu keys in most apps, but swipe gestures for certain features).

I understand that on-screen buttons will always be more durable than hardware ones, but hardware buttons have been perfectly fine in all the devices I've ever owned. Only my dad's LG L9 has a terribad home button, and that's probably because the phone is build badly all over. It's extremely uncommon to have purely capacitive navigation buttons unfortuntely, and capacitive is way more reliable than tactile - if Google demanded specific capacitive buttons then the Android experience would be so much better off.
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And ultimately, touchscreen is not only the most reliable, but the most consistent experience. Having buttons sort of takes away the overall purpose of a touchscreen, and creates a slightly broken user experience. Having all the functionality available from a single input is the ideal, I would wager.

My point with the spacebar and home button was that the risk of accidentally hitting the home button must be pretty high with the buttons so close together. It seems to be objectively crap design.
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I agree in principle, that the risk is there. But I have never hit it accidentally. I have, though, hit the physical back button accidentally whilst holding the device a certain way. You could argue that it's crap design to have a physical button on the bezel as you risk hitting it while using the device in landscape mode, or that it takes away from a unified look on the front of the device.

On screen keys are functionally superior, more reliable and with KitKat, not a screen reducing aspect anymore. The only thing that hardware buttons offer over them would be the tactile feel of actually pressing a key. But, this was the same "problem" thrown at early touch screen devices. Eventually, we got over that one... :)

BTW- I'm not dismissing your opinion. Hardware keys can be and are useful to those that prefer them. But from a design, functionality and UI flow perspective, on screen keys trump them in all aspects, especially now that the OS now makes provision for the loss of screen estate that they initially took up.
 
Maverick Jester said:
I agree with you to an extent. There is a consistency with the Apple UI, given that its sandboxed nature dictates the location of application settings. Doesn't make it less frustrating to use, for sure.

Because Android is an open source OS, even if it is owned by Google, and telling the vendors how to build the devices would probably go against the agreements set in place by the OHA. Design guidelines being controlled in house are far easier to manage and execute than dictating to your vendors as to how they can build their devices, in any event.

On top of it- the different vendors use the buttons for different reasons, because of their own overlying UI (eg how Sense 5 uses a different layout to Touchwiz). The best way to unify the way Android should ideally look, is for Google to present that themselves.

The Ubuntu Touch UI, is probably the best executed that I have seen, with its use of swipes- it is fluid and really shows you that buttons are legacy components. WebOS too, had this done well. Android is still a bit broken in this aspect (menu keys in most apps, but swipe gestures for certain features).

And ultimately, touchscreen is not only the most reliable, but the most consistent experience. Having buttons sort of takes away the overall purpose of a touchscreen, and creates a slightly broken user experience. Having all the functionality available from a single input is the ideal, I would wager.

I agree in principle, that the risk is there. But I have never hit it accidentally. I have, though, hit the physical back button accidentally whilst holding the device a certain way. You could argue that it's crap design to have a physical button on the bezel as you risk hitting it while using the device in landscape mode, or that it takes away from a unified look on the front of the device.

On screen keys are functionally superior, more reliable and with KitKat, not a screen reducing aspect anymore. The only thing that hardware buttons offer over them would be the tactile feel of actually pressing a key. But, this was the same "problem" thrown at early touch screen devices. Eventually, we got over that one... :)

BTW- I'm not dismissing your opinion. Hardware keys can be and are useful to those that prefer them. But from a design, functionality and UI flow perspective, on screen keys trump them in all aspects, especially now that the OS now makes provision for the loss of screen estate that they initially took up.
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So it essentially comes down to Google using on-screen buttons because they can't control hardware manufacturers? That seems like a major loss to consumers. I'll welcome the move to virtual buttons when technology has reached a point where the bezels are consistently smaller. I could get by with the LG G2, because it looks aesthetically pleasing with the LG logo and reasonably small lower bezel. The Xperia Z2 and Nexus 5 on the other hand look terrible - a bezel that large needs buttons to not look silly.
 
Bryn26 said:
So it essentially comes down to Google using on-screen buttons because they can't control hardware manufacturers? That seems like a major loss to consumers. I'll welcome the move to virtual buttons when technology has reached a point where the bezels are consistently smaller. I could get by with the LG G2, because it looks aesthetically pleasing with the LG logo and reasonably small lower bezel. The Xperia Z2 and Nexus 5 on the other hand look terrible - a bezel that large needs buttons to not look silly.
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I wouldn't say can't control, but they would isolate themselves if they dictated that to OEM's. It goes against the spirit of Android, as well. And, they still give OEM's the choice to use hardware keys. The freedom afforded to the OEM's has

I would like to see a device with consistently small bezels at each end, but that would be very interesting. The bezels on the Z2 and Nexus 5 add uniformity to the design. The Nexus also uses the bottom bezel to host the notification light.
 
CraZee said:
http://entechnet.com/2014/02/21/samsung-galaxy-s3-wont-get-android-4-4-kitkat-update/

Its all very well if KitKat runs on 512 Mb but touchwiz wont. So yes you can put KitKat on S3 but its not Samsung.
@Viva
Of course these aspects are related, but when new technology comes out, I expect Samsung's flagship to incorporate them.
For example, If you knew all the knew cars coming out were to incorporate fully automated driving modules and your favourite manufacturer's flagship car of the year brought out a car with only power steering, would you be happy.

I'm not saying its a bad phone, all I'm saying is that this year the manufacturers are chasing at least 3 Gb ram, > 3000 mAh batteries and 64 bit processing, why would I look at the "phone of the year" when it incorporates none of these.
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I read this article and thought it has some bearing on our conversation earlier. What do you think?
 
Se@n said:
Have u seen the note pro 12.2 in the flesh? If so thoughts on size and portability?
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I haven't. But will report back when I get my grubby little paws on it. 2inches can't be that much, right? (that's what i'm trying to tell my wife in any case LOL)
 
fanie.dry said:
I haven't. But will report back when I get my grubby little paws on it. 2inches can't be that much, right? (that's what i'm trying to tell my wife in any case LOL)
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LOL you keep trying to convince her:) let us know, have scouted the mtn stores but no demo units yet.
 
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