SAOL got a 30gb

[Carlhead]

I belive 64k/64k (local/intenational) via dedi lines costs about R3k - R4k per month.

It's a different story if you're leasing an international leased circuit.

 

[LabAnimal]

well then i hope SAOL is listening - PLEASE DON'T DO THIS, i intend on using EVERY LAST DROP of my cap, and if i had 30gig, i'd also use EVERY LAST DROP. You guys will burn your fingers with IPC. - rather fight telkom

 

[Carlhead]

Also... the routers compress the bandwidth, substantially.

I think the contension rations are like 20/1 so you'll have 20 ADSL users sharing 512k babdwidth.

Think about this... there are 120 000 ADSL users and less than 1GBps International peering, if my facts are all correct.

 

[Clipse]

I can't believe this figure. I am sure that a 128K diginet leased line costs less then this (and that is with a certain portion of international)

I understand the principals but the amounts sound extreme. Based on those figures they would be forced to charge R538 for those 13 accounts. It costs less then half that with a normal ADSL package. If that were the case, it would be cheaper for them to set up a bunch of ADSL lines at their office and have them all hooked up to SAIX. They would then route the international through their ADSL lines and the local through the normal channels. I seem to remember reading somewhere that satellite bandwidth was quite cheap.

Cheers

Dean

Abe, you have to remember, this is 64k 1:1 contented bandwidth, diginet is usually around 4 or 5:1 contented. So R7000 doesnt sound to far off.

 

[Carlhead]

64k 1:1 = R4k

 

[Abe]

64k 1:1 = R4k

Even at 20 x 512K users you get R200 per 3GB package. It's cheaper to buy SAIX bandwidth on ADSL. The only way to make any money would be on the local bandwidth. Even then I would still setup a batch of local ADSL accounts instead of the expensive "wholesale" amount. I just can't convince myself that a "wholesale" solution is more expensive then the retail solution. It may be that IS Satillite bandwidth is cheaper. I assume that the 4K is for SAIX traffic.

Cheers

Dean

 

[Carlhead]

4k is for SAIX bandwidth... but remember these ISP's don't buy 64k at a time, they prolly buy megalines rather than standard diginet... standard diginet goes from 64k - 2MB megalines got from 2MB - 34MB - 145MB... it obviously becomes much cheaper per 512k if you buy at this bulk.

 

[Abe]

4k is for SAIX bandwidth... but remember these ISP's don't buy 64k at a time, they prolly buy megalines rather than standard diginet... standard diginet goes from 64k - 2MB megalines got from 2MB - 34MB - 145MB... it obviously becomes much cheaper per 512k if you buy at this bulk.

Ok, that makes sense. Thought everyone was saying it was 4K / 7K per 64K of int traffic.

Thanks

Dean

 

[Abe]

Ok, that makes sense. Thought everyone was saying it was 4K / 7K per 64K of int traffic.

What would be really cool is if they could buy both SAIX and IS traffic. Then route traffic based on port. HTTP, FTP, HTTPS etc could go via cheaper IS and other ports (P2P, VOIP, etc) via SAIX.

Cheers

Dean

 

[Carlhead]

You could do that... you just need a decent subscriber base.

Datapro buys bandwidth from SAIX, IS and UUNet... I think they also have their own international circuit.

They route users wherever they need to... it all comes apart at the seams sometimes though... Peering link problems etc.

 

[HellTel]

Although this was a thread that concerned SAOL, they did not have the decency to explain what was asked of them.

We had to have their opposition explain what IPC was.

I can see a tough 2006 for us. (ADSL users)

 

[jabulani]

Wholesale international bandwidth pricing is around R7,000 per month for 64.

A really interesting post - thanks matt156. And to others who seem to have facts on the charges.

One issue though, is what the actual cost of the international haul is to Telkom, because I get a feeling that they are making massive markups by charging R7k or R4k per month on these links.

 

[Carlhead]

A really interesting post - thanks matt156. And to others who seem to have facts on the charges.

One issue though, is what the actual cost of the international haul is to Telkom, because I get a feeling that they are making massive markups by charging R7k or R4k per month on these links.

If you lease an international circuit, you rent it in 2 halves... 1 half circuit from Telkom and 1 half circuit from an international provider... alternet or sprintnet or MCI or whoever.

The interesting thing is, that Telkom's fee for the half circuit is 2 to 3 times more expensive than the international provider, even though you pay the international couterpart in dollars or pounds.

Also this should not be the case because Telkom is one of the primary shareholders of SAT3 (the undersea cable that you lease a pipe on). Thus they can afford to charge less than other shareholders of the cable... yet they are more expensive than all those tiny telecoms companies thoughout poor africa with tiny shares on the cable.

 

[matt156]

A really interesting post - thanks matt156. And to others who seem to have facts on the charges.

One issue though, is what the actual cost of the international haul is to Telkom, because I get a feeling that they are making massive markups by charging R7k or R4k per month on these links.

100% correct. That is the biggest argument against the cost of bandwidth here, is that Telkom's markups are so massive. I have no doubt they are ripping us off.

 

[matt156]

I belive 64k/64k (local/intenational) via dedi lines costs about R3k - R4k per month.

It's a different story if you're leasing an international leased circuit.

No ways. Not for 1:1 CIR (Committed Information Rate) international bandwidth. If you are paying R4k a month, you are not getting dedicated bandwidth. As a test, call IS and ask for the price of 64k CIR. R7,000 is actually a conservative price.

 

[matt156]

I can't believe this figure. I am sure that a 128K diginet leased line costs less then this (and that is with a certain portion of international)

I understand the principals but the amounts sound extreme. Based on those figures they would be forced to charge R538 for those 13 accounts. It costs less then half that with a normal ADSL package. If that were the case, it would be cheaper for them to set up a bunch of ADSL lines at their office and have them all hooked up to SAIX. They would then route the international through their ADSL lines and the local through the normal channels. I seem to remember reading somewhere that satellite bandwidth was quite cheap.

Cheers

Dean

The 64k I'm talking about is what ISPs buy to resell, which should be 1:1 CIR (full international).

If you went the ADSL route, you are still subject to a traffic limit. If you try sharing ADSL, you will reach that cap pretty quickly.

IS DO use satellite bandwidth for the international, but this is subject to high latency. Also, satellite bandwidth itself is subject to high contention ratios. And if you start reselling shared bandwidth, you just start compounding contention ratios.

 

[Abe]

If you went the ADSL route, you are still subject to a traffic limit. If you try sharing ADSL, you will reach that cap pretty quickly.

It would still be cheaper even if they did not share it. That is the crazy part. SAIX ADSL bandwidth is about R60 per GB (International or otherwise). At 7K per 64K with 20 512K users sharing the line, International traffic would be R117 per GB. It makes no sense to pay that when you can set up a batch of ADSL lines and pay half the price per GB. Setting up 20 1024K ADSL lines should be enough to cover +- 50 odd 512K users. The ISP's control the CAP so they could let 100's of GB of traffic through. The benefit to them is that it would all be international.

This sounds like typical Telkom. They sell SAT3 traffic to SAIX (themselves) cheaper then to anyone else and claim innocence at every turn.

IS DO use satellite bandwidth for the international, but this is subject to high latency. Also, satellite bandwidth itself is subject to high contention ratios. And if you start reselling shared bandwidth, you just start compounding contention ratios.

Fair enough. I suppose it only becomes an issue with P2P, VOIP and the such. That is why I thought you could forward that traffic via SAIX and all the HTTP via IS.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Dean

 

[Abe]

100% correct. That is the biggest argument against the cost of bandwidth here, is that Telkom's markups are so massive. I have no doubt they are ripping us off.

If you look at what SAIX charge, they have to be ripping everyone else off. Although the bandwidth is not dedicated. AYCE managed more then 100GB of traffic on TelkomInternet (All international). SAIX is charging 1/2 of what your ISP's get charged for raw bandwidth.

And the gov wonders why people complain.

Cheers

Dean

 

[Carlhead]

Confirmed... 1:1 R4000 per month... IS is pretty expensive; I'm talking about buying directly from SAIX at wholesale prices.