Saol story

A

armitage

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Hi my name is armitage and I have a story to tell.

My story started on the 22nd of feb with a sms from my friendly ISP saol telling me that sorry sir....you have reached your cap....and now u can't have internet anymore.

Oh woe is me i thought this morning as i made my coffee and looked on at my opera browser trying .....trying to get a life only to fail so miserably.

After 12 at work we got a power failure. (woot for eskom)
So i trekked home.

at home i logged onto saol.com...and amazingly it actually connected.

After doing the mandatory login that will always fail at their front page.(anyone else ever log into their front page and it always fails?)
I logged into the second page which always works..and looked on in horror as my account showed that i have used more bandwidth after being capped.

Currently my stats show

Total Available: 12.000 Gbytes
Total Used: 12.115 Gbytes
Total Remaining: -117.886 Mbytes

...now this was curious for me cause i know I got the sms saying i've been capped and i accepted that.

So i go to the my sessions section and look at the behaviour.

Date Port No Caller ID No Medium Login Time Logout Time Session Time Data Out Data In
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 02:43:31 03:43:31 01: 17.519 Mbytes 19.223 Mbytes <-------Here i got capped.
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 03:43:59 04:43:59 01: 1.728 Mbytes 2.759 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 04:44:57 05:44:58 01: 1.608 Mbytes 2.753 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 05:45:05 06:45:04 01: 1.714 Mbytes 3.050 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 06:45:12 07:45:12 01: 1.574 Mbytes 2.685 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 07:45:19 08:45:19 01: 1.658 Mbytes 2.680 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 08:45:38 09:45:33 01: 1.668 Mbytes 2.685 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 09:45:44 10:45:42 01: 1.647 Mbytes 2.669 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 10:45:57 11:45:57 01: 1.629 Mbytes 2.657 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 11:46:11 12:46:11 01: 1.638 Mbytes 2.663 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 12:46:18 13:46:19 01: 1.654 Mbytes 2.668 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 13:46:26 14:46:26 01: 1.918 Mbytes 3.156 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 14:46:51 15:46:51 01: 1.652 Mbytes 2.806 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 15:47:08 16:47:01 01: 1.618 Mbytes 2.604 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 16:47:22 17:47:27 01: 1.616 Mbytes 2.490 Mbytes <-------what's this?
22 xxxxxxx ADSL 17:47:45 17:55:10 07:25 88.110 Kbytes 142.625 Kbytes <-------what's this?


Astonished I phone saol's customer support an relatively fast get an answer by their support desk.
After explaining to the lady on call that I have usage that I didn't do and that seems to be an error she passes me off to another support person.
This lady was also unable to help and promised me that Mr. C will look into it. Unfortunately Mr. C was in a meeting.

"Is this going to happen today still?" I ask nervously.
"Yes he will call you immediately after the meeting" she replies.
/me hangs up
Time: 15:00

/me goes to the shop.

/me gets back at 4:20
/me checks account.

More usage?
22 ADSL 15:47:08 16:47:01 01: 1.618 Mbytes 2.604 Mbytes

what the hell's going on here?

I phone support again to see how far they are.
Oh the data seems to be the router an the authentication from saix.
......I go silent.
so that's the explanation?
.........i'm being charged for bandwidth ......even if i'm not using the internet?
Umm... from their side.
Mr. C can help you further with the problem sir.
Sorry sir. Mr. C is still in a meeting, but he will return your call as soon as he is done.
Fair nuff.


/me hangs up.
16:20

/me goes to make a snack
/me watches an episode of Battlestar galactica.

Time: 17:40

/me gets impatient

/me phones saol.com
Mr. C has gone home for the evening. His meeting finished at 17:30 and he has left for the day.
..........
okay who else can resolve this matter for me pls?
......Mr. C sir.

But he's gone home....
well you can phone tomorrow morning.
But what about tonight? I need my connection on.

You can buy more gigs sir.
..........
So if i buy more gigs now.
I'll lose that bandwidth that went extra
If i buy a gig...then i'll effectively get 800 megs out of it cause of "over usage"?
ummm yeah.


Okay ......thanks.
/me hangs up.



Now ppl here's a question.
If this data that's been going on between me an saix/saol whoever has been going on. that means that this month alone i've lost approximately 2.01 Gb's
of bandwidth because of their internal communcations.

Or if the case may be that this only happens when i can't authenticate. Then I have lost 200mb's.

Is this fair?

As far as i'm concerned this is THEFT.
[email protected] if your still reading these forums. Sorry mate but your efforts to improve your company's image can only go so far if there is nothing behind you to that supports your words.
Adsl is a 24hr product. Therefore I require support.....24/7 if need be.
The fact that an ISP has no one there to support their customers after 5:30 in the afternoon is frankly PATHETIC in my opinion.

===========

lemme paint you a picture.
ADSL in south africa has become effectively a prepaid system.

If i were to draw an analogy with prepaid then this basically means that i'm being charged to "authenticate" to the cellular providers system.

Imagine you bought a R30 airtime voucher but the moment you recharged it turns out that you now only have -R5 airtime because your cellphone has been trying to authenticate but because you didn't have airtime you were charged invisibly for it.
The moment you recharged. That R30 was first used to pay ure non connecting debt.


==================


SAOL.com screw you.
 
armitage said:
Hi my name is armitage and I have a story to tell.
Click to expand...

A depressing and sad story it is too. Please keep us informed when you finally get the elusive Mr C to give some answers.
 
Hi Armitage,

I believe I am the elusive "Mr C" you refer to - as your story is now public, let me respond to you in public.

Firstly, I cannot apologise for being in a meeting the whole afternoon trying to work out a better deal for you, the ADSL client - as you may or may not know, SAOL has been the only ISP to actually sell 10 Gig accounts below cost to soften the blow for ADSL consumers - I am glad to see that you have benefited from this for the past 3 months - we hope to keep prices as low as possible until we get some relief from Telkom in the hopefully not too distant future.

Secondly, the reason why I did not evacuate the meeting, drop everything and respond to your issues are quite simply because I don't believe the issue is nearly as big as you make it out to be - once you reach your cap, you still have access to all sites on the SAOL network as well as access to your email, so it is not surprising that even after being capped you managed to transfer around 4 Mbytes / hour - the actual usage on your account after being capped is 58,762 Kbytes this equates to around R1.96 on our 10 Gig @ R349 package - hardly theft on our behalf considering that your over-usage this month equates to around 117 Mbytes. I notice you have topped up your account twice this month already, this suggests that you are aware of our top up facilities and that you are capable of topping up your account to avoid loss of connectivity tonight.


I am sorry to say that I cannot resolve your issue as I cannot see an issue to resolve - if there is something I have overlooked please feel free to contact me and I will try my utmost to understand and resolve it.

Regards
---
Pedantic
www.saol.com
 
Pedantic, regardless of whether there was theft or not, how can it be that ONLY you, MR C, can offer this explanation?

Why cant the people on the other end of the phone do this? I can fully understand armitage's frustrations at not being able to receive answers in reasonable amounts of time.

You sound quite important at SAOL what with all these meetings and stuff. Cant you train your underlings to answer questions while you are busy saving the world?

Your snotty reply to Armitage has done nothing to endear me to SAOL, on the contrary. Realise this: the customer may not always be right, but the customer puts bread on your table and puts your kids through school. Learn a bit of diplomacy ffs.
 
What i've noticed from SAOL - the closer i get to 0-Gig, the modem disconnects more often. I've also noticed that my CAP disapears alot quicker when this occurs, even though i havent really done much short of browsing.

SAOL users, nor any users from any other ISP should have to pay for authentication issues - this is unfair regardless of how "Cheap" SAOL might be.

Pedantic - Regardless of making any problem public, you should be impressing people with how far you would go to resolve an issue, not use sarcastic remarks to dissapoint your customers. Public Image is everything, and you of all people representing a company online should make SAOL look the "Knight in Shining Armor" to come to the rescue with not just excellent prices, but fantastic support!

What i've realised from your Support staff and Online comments : YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! - Prove us all wrong Please!
 
Hi pendantic.
Unfortunately last nite i had to piggy back on a friend's isp to use the net.
You state that my account is 58,762 Kbytes over the cap.
But when I checked the main site there is no 58 Mb's over cap but rather 117.886 Mbytes where do you get this figure? You certainly don't get it from my usage stats as reflected on your website.

I'm sorry that I probably don't earn as much as you do but the fact that even 1 meg is taken from my account is a serious matter for me.
If i have to pay for every kb then I sure as hell want every kb for myself to use on the internet and not to pay for connecting to u or saix. I already pay the 360 + 98 for that privelege.

The fact that you are the only person at saol that knows how to help a customer is quite alarming. Is there no one else in your company that can stand in for you if a customer needs help.

I have since last night turned off my modem to stop it from trying to authenticate and lo an behold my usage stats are.

Purchased this month: 12.000 Gbytes
Total Available: 12.000 Gbytes
Total Used: 12.115 Gbytes
Total Remaining: -117.886 Mbytes


My statement in the end of the post is not nice, but the fact that your support mechanism for your customers is lacking is a direct result of that.
That after about 3 calls and everytime being assured that you would phone me back I recieved the news that you packed ure bags and went home after the meeting and I would have to wait till tomorrow.
The fact that I phoned three times is just a measure of how low I regard any IT support in this country. Most of us know that your quite lucky if u recieve a call back. A lot of the times all you'll get next time you phone is just a ......."sorry sir.....who are you?"
So you phone and you phone and you keep on trying to get through and get your issues resolved hopefully.
 
Nothing is more furstrating then being told that someone will call you back today, and then when you phone you find out they have gone home.
It shows a complete lack of integrity and breaks every rule on customer service. Its the kind of response i expect from telkom.
 
SAOL always had authenticate ion problem.
I have just spent now 10 minutes trying to connect to the system
I was not aware of the fact that I am paying for it since this ritual is repeting itself evey second day. I was advised by SAOL that they are aware of their authenticate ion problems and "working on it"
I am happy that I am leaving them at the end of the month.
From my experience SAOL = lack of professionalism + lack of service+rudeness.
 
roddyp said:
Nothing is more furstrating then being told that someone will call you back today, and then when you phone you find out they have gone home.
It shows a complete lack of integrity and breaks every rule on customer service. Its the kind of response i expect from telkom.
Click to expand...
Defiantly.
 
Okay so Mr. C phoned me and we got the issue sorted out with my account.

My usage reflects the following

Used: -117.886 Mbytes

But Mr. C informed me that the 58.762 mb's he referred to was actually over usage of my package.

Now the other 59.124 mb's is "network usage".
The 59 is caused by the router trying to redial into the exchange effectively using data according to saix.

Mr. C has in a consolitory move recharged my account with 2gb's which honestly he didn't have to but did out of sympathy for my situation.

Now when i look at my stats though i do see that the 117mbs has been deducted from my available bandwidth.

The 58 mb's overusage is understandable. The 59 mb's is wrong.

I pay a adsl line rental and telephone rental fee every month to be connected to the adsl network.
That 59 mb's should not be coming off on my available data but should rather be carried by the carrier (aka saix).


Thanks to mr.c for getting back to me.

But this brings up an interesting problem.

Does anyone think there is a way to use this against the beast?
 
armitage Now the other 59.124 mb's is "network usage". The 59 is caused by the router trying to redial into the exchange effectively using data according to saix. [/QUOTE said:
k, ill bite.

what do they define as 'network usage' that takes up 59megs in a month. if they telling you its authentication, then they are talking bull****.

j.

...another disclaimer about playing in the traffic and emails, thoughts and stuff being my own...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Oh this is just getting worse and worse. I've also notice the small bits of data transfered on our office router over weekends when all computers have been switched off, but never bothered to add it up.
Me thinks its time to open a spreadsheet and do some calculations. This is rather important information for me because I keep a very tight hand on our cap, as there is no provision in the our budget for "top-up internet access". To start off with it was an extremely hard sell to my boss to get it installed, and to have to go and get a "top-up" approved for a service that I boasted as being "always on and at a fixed cost" thing, will be suicide.

Daily limits are set and the download of software, updates and patches I have to work into the "ADSL usage budget" spreading the load over a few months if necessary. Obviously I'll have to start looking at powering the router down when not in use, after hours and over weekends.

Thank you Telscum, this is all of your making - A new job description forced in SA: ADSL Bandwidth Usage Anyliser and Controller - Suitable applicant will have extensive experience of being r@ped by Telscum in the ADSL arena...
 
Hmm now how do they do account logging/guessing, when you havnt authenticated yet?

ie. How do they decide, who to bill for authentication usage if the user/pass couldnt be validated and attached to the usage report?

This makes very little sense and Ive never heard of this before.

Weirdness.
 
I've sent through the details as i've understood them to through to icasa.

Wonder if anything will ever happen about it.

As far as i'm concerned i pay adsl + rental to get connected to the dsl system. The extra isp is inconsequential cause I buy that to access the internet.

The network overhead should not in that case be deducted from my usage because i pay that in my first bill.

It seems that in effect i'm paying triple access costs now.
adsl access.
line rental
adsl "network usage" costs hidden in my normal usage.
 
I was not impressed with the response from SAOL in this regard and even though they eventually resolved it, I am glad I will not be dealing with them anymore.
With regard to the bandwidth, I have been noticing for some time that I was losing more bandwidth than I was using, but am yet to find a decent bandwidth tool for really checking the stats. I only noticed this issue once moving to SAOL , which is also when the per-gig billing came into play.
I would not be surprised if telskum has added this as a "feature" of per-gig billing.
If anyone knows how we can correctly monitor this, please let me know.
Because it makes no sense to have to pay for the line and then be charged again to authenticate.
 
Since when is all of this news? This router bw usage has been an issue since ADSL launched in SA and the only accounts around where 3gb telkom ones. Anyone whos left there router on over the weekend and gone away knows this happens. Just switch your modem off if 1mb matters so much to you. Really I think this is trivial, just my opinion.
 
ItalicBold said:
Since when is all of this news? This router bw usage has been an issue since ADSL launched in SA and the only accounts around where 3gb telkom ones. Anyone whos left there router on over the weekend and gone away knows this happens. Just switch your modem off if 1mb matters so much to you. Really I think this is trivial, just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Trivial to some, not so trivial to others.

I'll explain: The fact that you can't login to SAOL's front page, that to me is extremely trivial, and of absolutely no importance. To you I gather it's a different story.

The fact that IS users have always had limited international access, a well known fact for a long time, to me of absolutely no importance, to IS users, extremely important.

Please think before you make such arrogant statements. We are not all in the same boat. Just because something is not a problem for you, does not mean it is not a problem for others, and certainly does not make it trivial.

Just my thoughts
 
Just to confirm, the 59 odd meg over-usage on the account in question is not due to failed OR successful authentication requests - it is in fact the network "overhead" of having an ADSL router connected to the network permanently - with armitage's account being capped, he was placed on a 1 hour session timeout - you will see from the logs he posted that his session renewed every hour - and data transfer between his router / network and the SAOL network was around 2.7 Meg down and 1.7 meg up per hour - this data has no relevance to "authentication" requests.

Hope that clears the confusion.

---
Pedantic
www.saol.com
 
ic said:
Somewhat off topic, but as a matter of interest what are you using to impose the daily caps?
Click to expand...

Fortunately there are not that many pc's on the lan, and they are all in an open office environment. Unfortunately the man that approves expenditures still believes in pen and paper, and is completely IT illitarate. So to get any kind of funds approved for IT related items is extremely difficult. lol all I can do at present is to check usage stats on the SAIX site (check twice a day), and block certain ports for apps that are not used for our business.

Maybe I should try and "retire" one of the older boxes and get IPCop setup on it. Should make my life a bit easier:o
 
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