SaxAppeal pulled off shelves

R/SGT

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'Jesus is referred to as a tool'

By Angela Quintal

A leading food retailer on Thursday pulled a satirical student magazine off its shelves after a storm of protest from Christians who objected to what they said was the publication of a blasphemous article and cartoon.

This year's SaxAppeal, produced by University of Cape Town students for charity, was sponsored by Pick n Pay.

But the company, which prides itself on being a family store, pulled the magazine off the shelves after receiving several complaints on Thursday.

Irate Christians, including the Vineyard Church's John Eliastam, also lodged a complaint with the SA Human Rights Commission and have threatened protests.

In an email to a network of Christian churches and organisations, Errol Naidoo, of the Family Policy Institute, charged that Saxappeal had "grossly overstepped the boundaries of decency & respect for individual religious beliefs".

"Jesus is referred to as a 'tool, Christians as stupid c**nts and God as a 'pervert'," he writes.

He quoted extracts from an article titled "Top Ten Atheist Retorts to Fundamentalist Christians " which Naidoo said were particularly offensive.

These included "Jesus died to save us from our sins". - "I bet he feels like a tool now" and "Praise the Lord, it's a miracle!" - "No you stupid C.*.*.T. (Christian who Understands No Theorems) statistically they happen every 365 days".
:mad:

Naidoo said on Thursday night the articles were "wrong and immoral".

"If this was directed at the Islamic faith, there would be a massive outcry, maybe even with violence. Thankfully we won't respond that way, but that does not make us whipping boys."

Naidoo said a group of Christian organisations, were seeking a meeting with UCT, where they would insist on an apology and the magazine's withdrawal.

He had earlier spoken to Pick n Pay's Jonathan Ackerman who had subsequently pulled the magazine off the store's shelves.

Pick n Pay spokesperson Tamra Veley said that " given that this is a magazine produced by students for a student initiative" the company had never played a role in editorial decisions of any kind.

The company had supported Shawco, the principal beneficiary of the magazine's sales for over 40 years and believed it was an extremely worthy cause.

"We do believe that while satire has always been a feature of Sax Appeal, students putting the magazine together should be extra careful while documenting, reporting and cartooning their work to avoid blatant disrespect of any faith, culture and race. We therefore made the decision to remove Sax Appeal from sale in Pick n Pay stores.

"However, it must be said that we continue to wish both UCT and Shawco continued success with the excellent work they do to support the very needy in our city," Veley said.

But Freedom of Expression Institute executive director, Jane Duncan, said last night that blasphemy was no longer a recognised ground for restriction of publications.

"So arguments to restrict the publication on this basis do not hold water".

She also did not believe that the publication amounted to hate speech.

"It is debatable whether the article advocates hatred against the Christian religion. The statements ridicule Christianity, but that does not mean that they encourage people actively to hate the religion.

"But what is not debatable is that the statements do not involve incitement to cause harm, as they do not call on people to harm Christians.

It therefore did not meet the test for hate speech, Duncan said.

"The statements contained in the publication are silly and childish. Many of us would simply dismiss as student toilet humour and move on to more enlightened literature, which is perhaps how Errol Naidoo and UCT should consider dealing with the matter."

UCT Rag chairperson Cameron Arendse referred queries to UCT spokesperson Gerda Kruger, who did not respond last night.

A statement issued by the Christian Democratic Alliance said it had been "extremely tolerant of the constant attacks on Christianity in recent history", its spokesperson Colin Fibiger said.

"We consider the content of the UCT magazine to be a deliberate and planned, discriminatory attack on Christianity and will seek full restitutional measures," CDA spokesperson Colin Fibiger said.

"This includes the immediate removal of the Executive Director of Student Affairs, as well as the Project manager and all editorial staff."

The CDA's Eastern Cape province called for a national ban on all companies that sponsored the blasphemy,"unless acceptable corrective measures are taken", Fibiger said.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20090220061422916C552676

Students doing what they do so well "Offending people"
 

PostmanPot

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1 Hour ago Kimber wrote :
I think it's ridiculous that people get so worked up over an article when real people around them are being murdered and raped, animals abused, the palnet destroyed.... Get a grip, ask your god to fix his creations let people have freedom of speech! Just because we don't all follow the same religion doesn't make us bad or wrong!
1 Hour ago Ant - Durban wrote :
To Anonymous, we're not talking about atheists or marxists. If you calculate the number of wars and total number of people killed by Christians for not being Christian you'll find that you're wrong. Christianity is dying out as a belief system, the church is losing it's power over people, the heads of churches commit sinful acts yet many will follow these people with BLIND FAITH. Going to church is simply a way to flash of fancy car and nice clothes so Mr and Mrs Smith can envy you. Christianity hasn't caught up with society, all religions are philosphies (that can be disproved) and if a philosophy becomes irrelevant it's discarded. Goodluck to you and all the Christian fundamentalists out there I hope you find what you're looking for.
1 Hour ago Raymond wrote :
Good Day. Why not let God defend Himself in this situation? In the Bible there is the story of the Prophet Elisha and the unruly children who mocked the man of God and were mauled by something! If the story in the Bible is a true reflection of some point in History, why then would current day Christians thing that God needs their help / protest / anger or what ever else they plan to do? Let God defend Himself !!!!

Hear hear.
 

DJ...

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Sorry, I don't see the problem at all with the bolded bits. The CDA are the ones acting more childish than the remarks made in the publication.

"Oh noes, someone said something bad about our religion. Quick, lets call it hate speech and cause a raucous - it's been a slow week after all"

They're entitled to print their opinions on the matter as well if they so choose. As was stated in the article - there was no incitement to cause harm. It was merely a dig at christianity. What a bunch of CNUTS...
 

PeterCH

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Sorry, I don't see the problem at all with the bolded bits. The CDA are the ones acting more childish than the remarks made in the publication.

"Oh noes, someone said something bad about our religion. Quick, lets call it hate speech and cause a raucous - it's been a slow week after all"

They're entitled to print their opinions on the matter as well if they so choose. As was stated in the article - there was no incitement to cause harm. It was merely a dig at christianity. What a bunch of CNUTS...

SaxAppeal is not someones private paper but is funded by PnP and used to generate funds for charities - mainly the clinics UCT runs in the townships/Manneberg. The bolded bits are obscene and not funny in any way.
 

R/SGT

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Hear hear.

In terms of reactions to similar events around the world, I would say that they have been rather restrained and civil.

Why should theY be allowed to get away with this?

They have a right to freedom of speech and expression, but there are limits to that.
 

PeterCH

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In terms of reactions to similar events around the world, I would say that they have been rather restrained and civil.

Why should theY be allowed to get away with this?

They have a right to freedom of speech and expression, but there are limits to that.

They are limited by the agreements they had with PnP. PnP is a business and would not fund for example a magazine which would show pictures of nude children for example, same here. If the public (customers) deem it obscene, the rag gets pulled. Anyway it's nothing to get worked up over, SaxAppeal has never been very funny and the UCT clinics have not done the volume that ahem Stellenbosh clinics do (USKOR) ahem. :)
 

daveza

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It's a really bad move to post something as blatantly controversial as this in a charity mag.

Sax Appeal has long needed an overhaul. I would rather spend R20 on a Big Issue.
 

icyrus

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How dreary. A note to the religious, get on with your lives and let god deal with judgement etc.
 

Nanfeishen

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Marketing strategy, by doing this they have ensured that every "offended" individual will now want to buy the magazine themselves to "see or read" the article themselves, so they can now consider them selves offended and victimised personally.
This therefore generates more sales and more revenue, which is the aim of the magazine anyway.
 

DJ...

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Peter, this is the beauty of living in a country where we have both freedom of speech AND freedom of religion (or lack thereof) - that article is not offensive in the least little bit to me. We often read things that we find offensive for personal reasons - it doesn't mean that we should blanket ban anything that offends - heck, Zuma and his cronies would be mighty happy if that were the case. We often read things that are politically offensive, or racially offensive - why should religion be afforded this special protection?

Okay, if PnP take issue with it, then no problems whatsoever. If it's their project then they have every right to pull it if it doesn't fit with their reader-base or may negatively affect them. Much like racism isn't tolerated on this forum - it's rpm's house after all and he makes the rules. However from a personal perspective, I have no issue with what was printed. It doesn't offend me, and even if it did, it's like water off a duck's back at the end of the day...
 

Nanfeishen

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Readers Digest Oxford complete Wordfinder defines "Tool" as "a person used as a mere instrument by another", so the article is not wrong in any way.
The offended parties do consider him to be the instrument of salvation.
That by merely accepting him one is saved.
He therefore becomes a "mere instrument""
He is the key (an instrument used to open locks) to salvation.

For those offended, dont see the negative conotation in everything.
 

Moederloos

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Ag shame, did the naughty students offend you and your omnipotent hallucination?
 

Gaz{M}

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I bet Jesus does feel like a tool judging by the behaviour of some of his followers..
 

DJ...

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I bet Jesus does feel like a tool judging by the behaviour of some of his followers..

Oi careful now - you're gonna have the CDA on your case with an attitude like that. Ooh, and you've put it in writing as well. Heck, they could request to have this site closed down and all advertisers "banned". Whatever happened to a good old fashioned "boycott"? Why the need to ban companies now and how do they plan to go about this? :D
 

brixton tower

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Students doing what they do so well "Offending people"

i'm not a Christian and those bolded bits are highly offensive. I'm an atheist and the last thing I'd be doing is rub my disabelief in the face of other peple- you are no better than the zealots when you resort to their tactics to get your point across.
 

R/SGT

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I am catholic and I do find it offensive and rather sad.

Honestly what did they hope to achieve by this?

As for those slating the actions of the christians, why should we allow this slander of something we hold to be true?

At what point does freedom of speech cross the Line and start to interfere with freedom of religon.

I dont believe in throwing my religon in your face so why should you throw your disbelief in mine.
 

DJ...

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How does their article interfere in any way with your freedom of religion? And how is it slander?

They're entitled to their opinions, regardless of how strongly you oppose them. It's if they incite hatred and violence when it becomes an issue. Their right to express their opinion is every bit as much protected as your freedom to believe in whatever you want...
 

R/SGT

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Jesus is referred to as a 'tool, Christians as stupid c**nts and God as a 'pervert'

Id say this is edging on hate speech.

While they may say that tool and **** are acronyms for other words, in SA they are generally viewed as been negative vulgar exspressions.

(PS if they are so sure that is not offensive, why dont they try and print a islamic vesion?)

My question was actually, how far does freedom of exspression extend.
 

DJ...

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That's just a heap of baloney. Within the context of the article it is hardly as bad as the CDA intentionally make out. Besides, I am of the personal opinion that if your god does exist, he is a pervert, racist, murderer etc. I'm entitled to this opinion whether it offends you or not. I have my reasons for believing so and I don't often post it because I know that many people take serious offence to it. However I'm perfectly entitled to believing so and voicing it, considering the bible quotes god performing these atrocities. However that's a thread for PD I suppose, not here.

I could just as easily state that religion offends me, and seeing signs for a church infringes on my rights to not believe in religion, using your logic. Just because you're offended doesn't make it hate speech. Grab a twinsaver and deal with it...
 

icyrus

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Id say this is edging on hate speech.

While they may say that tool and **** are acronyms for other words, in SA they are generally viewed as been negative vulgar exspressions.

(PS if they are so sure that is not offensive, why dont they try and print a islamic vesion?)

Ridiculous. Sure, you found it offensive. You know what? Tough. You do not have the right to not be offended.

My question was actually, how far does freedom of exspression extend.

All the way up until them advocating violence against certain groups.
 
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