School Attacks

[TheHiveMind]

i saw the thread about the school kids getting stabbed and thought i would ask the following question as its been on my mind awhile now. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO PREFECTS AT SCHOOL. i remember when i was at school i would never step out of line or catch on anything naughty because i was worried that a prefect would see me and report me to the teachers or principal. i know the prefects cannot be everywhere and that nothing happened at school anyway but damn i was not gonna take a chance anyway. DO SCHOOLS STILL HAVE PREFECTS AND WHAT IS THEIR ROLL AT SCHOOL ANYWAY.

Well when I was at school, 95% of the prefects were the popular kids, which means they were the ones who needed to be kept in line and constantly put in their place.
If they are the prefects, then that's not happening. FAIL

 

[I am Penguin]

I have never known prefects to be anything, but useless when it came to preventing violence.


Completely ineffectual back in the day.

Really? I suppose that is why crime, murder and violence are the order of the day nowadays, as according to your logic in the past the "controls" was inefficient and now it's working as it should. Funny it worked then, even on the masses, and nothing works today!

 

[seventhson]

Abolition of corporal punishment is not the problem. It was always the refuge of the lazy and child abusers anyway.

It floors me that my old highschool is infested with CCTV cameras nowadays. What the hell is that all about? When I went to school, if someone was caught stealing, expulsion was the least of their problems. They'd most certainly be explaining themselves to the cops as well. Same goes for vandalism and the sort of destruction we're seeing in the schools right now.

I thought corporal punishment solved everything?[/QUOTE]

Like I said schools are prisons. And the inmates seem to be taking over.

 

[Flanders]

Completely ineffectual back in the day.

From personal experience I have to disagree. And it's not necessarily the caning that was the cure. It was consequence full stop; repercussion for your actions. Something that is almost totally missing from our society today. Being hit on the bum with a stick was simply a short-term deterrent and the brand of hitting we received on occasion sure as **** deterred us from stepping too far out of line. And the beauty of it was that nobody I know of holds a grudge about it all these years later. It was just the way it was.

Abolition of corporal punishment is not the problem. It was always the refuge of the lazy and child abusers anyway.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying the enforcers of corporal punishment hid behind this system in order to get their way with the kiddies?

 

[PeterCH]

Really? I suppose that is why crime, murder and violence are the order of the day nowadays, as according to your logic in the past the "controls" was inefficient and now it's working as it should. Funny it worked then, even on the masses, and nothing works today!

Poverty breeds violence. Poor people live in areas where gangstas rule the roost. Poor people have broken homes which means undisciplined kids. They also have less stability and access to police, counseling, even 'love'. When previously posh schools with well off kids opened up to poor kids from areas with high crime, the bad element also moved in with them, as did the rowdiness. Prefect or not, the issue is one of SA society at large. We have lots of crime in the locations, little in the suburbs, because we guard the suburbs so well. I guess there is no money to guard schools except for the small private ones.

 

[I am Penguin]

Poverty breeds violence. Poor people live in areas where gangstas rule the roost. Poor people have broken homes which means undisciplined kids. They also have less stability and access to police, counseling, even 'love'. When previously posh schools with well off kids opened up to poor kids from areas with high crime, the bad element also moved in with them, as did the rowdiness. Prefect or not, the issue is one of SA society at large. We have lots of crime in the locations, little in the suburbs, because we guard the suburbs so well. I guess there is no money to guard schools except for the small private ones.

Thanks for the explanation, now explain the rest of Africa and the World where poverty also do exist and the same level of local crime, violence and attitude do not exist!

 

[I am Penguin]

From personal experience I have to disagree. And it's not necessarily the caning that was the cure. It was consequence full stop; repercussion for your actions. Something that is almost totally missing from our society today. Being hit on the bum with a stick was simply a short-term deterrent and the brand of hitting we received on occasion sure as **** deterred us from stepping too far out of line. And the beauty of it was that nobody I know of holds a grudge about it all these years later. It was just the way it was.

Not sure I understand. Are you saying the enforcers of corporal punishment hid behind this system in order to get their way with the kiddies?

What keeps a society at bay! FEAR, FEAR for the consequences, FEAR of a penalty, FEAR of punishment, FEAR of being an outcast of society. That is what made the world a livable place. Take all those fears away like in the South African context and see what we have. A perfect example of growing lawlessness.

 

[PeterCH]

Thanks for the explanation, now explain the rest of Africa and the World where poverty also do exist and the same level of local crime, violence and attitude do not exist!

You may have missed the part about the 'gangstas' rule the roost.

 

[MyWorld]

Completely ineffectual back in the day.

I'm not going to debate this, but I strongly disagree. I know of many examples, were it not for the cane, some people would have made total failures of their life.

In particular, when I went to std 6 there were 4 boys who all failed the previous year, one should have been in std 9, the other in std 8 and two in std 7 (so failed 3 times, twice and once). The "main peanut" was the dude who failed the most, but the onnie in maths told him only once that he will not allow him to fail him class, he expected at least 60% from him.

He failed maths once (something like 10-15%), and that onnie gave him a hiding that still haunts me to this day, I have never seen the likes before and never after that, the only hiding I saw that onnie dish out ever. That dude never failed again, he made the subsequent two years without any problems and left school in std 8 (when he turned 19 I think) to go into business and AFAIK made a success of that.
NOTE: No one ever failed that year or the years following.

The cane did wonders to instil the fear of God and discipline in the youth of our day, well regulated by the school it is quite successful.

 

[PeterCH]

What keeps a society at bay! FEAR, FEAR for the consequences, FEAR of a penalty, FEAR of punishment, FEAR of being an outcast of society. That is what made the world a livable place. Take all those fears away like in the South African context and see what we have. A perfect example of growing lawlessness.

Child education starts at home. When your home is broken and children turn to gangsta's for role models, fear alone will not work. I agree policing is necessary but that won't stop truancy, rude behaviour and delinquency. It may reduce violence.

 

[seventhson]

What keeps a society at bay! FEAR, FEAR for the consequences, FEAR of a penalty, FEAR of punishment, FEAR of being an outcast of society. That is what made the world a livable place. Take all those fears away like in the South African context and see what we have. A perfect example of growing lawlessness.

You are so brain washed dude,Fear does not keep people at bay. It did not work for the nazis or the soviets.

 

[LazyLion]

You are so brain washed dude,Fear does not keep people at bay. It did not work for the nazis or the soviets.

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.” - Robert Heinlein

 

[waynegohl]

i have seen a teacher or a principal at one school tell the pupils strolling to school just before 8 or 8.30 and they ignored him. i then saw pupils after 9 am still strolling to school. kids seem not to care anymore.

on tuesday we took my daughter to the airport and my youngest went with. she then asked us to take her to school as she was going to write a test later in the day, the fact that she enjoys school and is excited for her high school interview next week speaks volumes.

 

[Flanders]

You are so brain washed dude,Fear does not keep people at bay. It did not work for the nazis or the soviets.

Well, being allowed to act with impunity sure aint working either! Something tells me you weren't around to enjoy a degree of order as opposed to pure chaos.

People are talking about gangsterism etc. - let me just say this: in our "bad" old system, gangsterism and anarchy was not allowed to flourish one little bit. I'm talking in the school environment in particular because I was too young to have experienced "the real world" much at all during that time but I'm sure these rules applied to every facet of society. That sort of thing was crushed before it started. In that regard, you as an individual could feel safe in your school environment from the point of view that authority figures were not threatened. The entire organisation (and now, country) were not held for ransom until demands were met. Gangs in schools? Hah. It's truly pathetic. I know of a story in my old highschool where not long ago, a gang of students (yes, guess the colour) badly beat up a prefect. The result? Sweet nothing! The reason? Racial bullying...in favour of the gang!

I remember seeing shows about the pitiful state of schools in the US and to a certain degree the UK as well and what struck me immediately was that there was no harsh discipline. Weapons at school...drugs...absolutely zero respect for teachers... Now look at us. We're there too.

 

[noxibox]

on tuesday we took my daughter to the airport and my youngest went with. she then asked us to take her to school as she was going to write a test later in the day, the fact that she enjoys school and is excited for her high school interview next week speaks volumes.

The credit for that should go to her parents.

People are talking about gangsterism etc. - let me just say this: in our "bad" old system, gangsterism and anarchy was not allowed to flourish one little bit.

Actually it was.

I remember seeing shows about the pitiful state of schools in the US and to a certain degree the UK as well and what struck me immediately was that there was no harsh discipline. Weapons at school...drugs...absolutely zero respect for teachers... Now look at us. We're there too.

And what is harsh discipline? But actually those schools are in particular areas and the problems start at home. The best the teachers could hope to achieve is to create the appearance of good behaviour.

Actually when I was at school the teachers that had my respect earned it, and they still have it to this day. The rest I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

 

[waynegohl]

The credit for that should go to her parents.


Actually it was.


And what is harsh discipline? But actually those schools are in particular areas and the problems start at home. The best the teachers could hope to achieve is to create the appearance of good behaviour.

Actually when I was at school the teachers that had my respect earned it, and they still have it to this day. The rest I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

thanks man but it must come from moms side, i was useless at school.

respect of one elders and authority figures or the lack thereof has a roll to play in a childs life.

 

[PeterCH]

Actually when I was at school the teachers that had my respect earned it, and they still have it to this day. The rest I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

You realise that you have an attitude of entitlement?