Sectional Title Estate's that use smart technology for utilities

[zerocool2009]

If there are managing agents or trustees out there using smart technology for utilities (for water or elec reading), please share.

So far I could think prepaid elec could work as a once off solution, but long terms its pricey.

Thinking about water meters, I read up and could find a firm that install smart water meters that sends digital information and all the readings are available via an online portal.

I am trying to think long term ... and if I do the sums, 10 years of water and lights meter readings sums up to more than R1.2KK (ouch)

Any feedback or inputs would be appreciated

 

[zerocool2009]

Going prepaid -> Invoices are much easier as in ZERO admin / meter readings / no billing required

 

[Hamster]

All I can tell you is that if somebody starts an electricity/water meter reading company charging a 5% admin fee estates will jump ship and the mafia scum running the current extortion companies will close down fir good.

 

[zerocool2009]

My current issue ... finding out meters not working for YEARS as owners cant even complain to say "listen here, my water or power isnt working".

Then added fees in the long term, to illuminate finger faults (wrong captures) ... or to automatically show or detect a meter that might give issues or not working (that's my request in short)

I want to find out if any estates have smart meters in (that sends digital information to be captured or used).

 

[krycor]

Going prepaid -> Invoices are much easier as in ZERO admin / meter readings / no billing required

They still charge for prepaid meter “lease/infrastructure” I saw this in Cpt from CoCT, Jhb/GP has similar.

Wrt meter readings.. I’ve yet to be in a place that doesn’t charge for it. Interestingly the agencies that “read” the meter do so cheaper than the lease cost I see CoCT charges but then Cpt is just expensive (where the infrastructure cost is worked into the consumable unit charge.. which still worked out cheaper in Jhb).

 

[zerocool2009]

I chatted today with guys doing smart meters. They give stats nicely, R45 per meter admin a month

Lol!

 

[richjdavies]

We do it... We run smart metering for hundreds of apartments, few estates, few malls.
DM for more info.
We do the metering, billing, even collections - more importantly we DO something with the information (from efficiency, leak/waste reduction, tariff optimisation, through to solar!)

Water for a small block on its own is a pain - people paying at most a couple hundred rand a month, dont want to pay a few grand for installing a new smart meter (install almost as much a meter if not more!) AND pay monthly fees. But on a new build and/or with electricity and more so with central hot water, good metering and management can SAVE money rather cost it.

We dont do prepaid. Prepaid means you lose 8-20% to vend tokens, or you are stuck with a vending problem (you can buy tokens in cash from the club house every 2nd Tuesday... If its working). Prepaid water is simply NOT fit for purpose in my mind... Valves break too often, warranties are poor.

We generally find South African firms / companies rather get a badly specced tender out for a specific thing (e.g. prepaid water meters) rather than get a properly managed service.

I'd rather a taxi than having to assemble my own car.... particularly if the taxi is cheaper... But some people would rather they got the "best" price on the tyres and cobble together a vehicle over 3 years that costs more and doesnt do it's job... Then realise they don't know how to drive

 

[krycor]

I'd rather a taxi than having to assemble my own car.... particularly if the taxi is cheaper... But some people would rather they got the "best" price on the tyres and cobble together a vehicle over 3 years that costs more and doesnt do it's job... Then realise they don't know how to drive

It's a problem of perceived value of service and narrowed focus.. i.e. people focus on the reading meter aspect and negate the other aspects.

Anyway each estate has it's own strategy in this respect and my current one in Cpt is the 1st time i'm dealing with City municipality for any & all services. Kinda amazed but i guess it makes sense.. Cpt is very much a backward place in ways where economies of scale make service providers and differing strategies possible.

 

[richjdavies]

It's a problem of perceived value of service and narrowed focus.. i.e. people focus on the reading meter aspect and negate the other aspects.

Completely agree. Reading a meter is a cheap thing done by unskilled labour.

Don't know about you, but when I have a thing I'm paying R100,000 per month for as an estate (utilities), I'd rather think of trying to move that R100,000 rather focus on the R1000 to check it... People think of utilities as a foregone conclusion, nothing you can do about them - but its not true at all.

An example of one factory - first saved then R10,000 per month from bad billing, then saved them R20,000 from light switching investment, then saved them R30,000 per month from better tariff due to lower usage. Now Solar is viable...
Bill went from R100,000 to R40,000... With no significant investments...

Fyi they had smart metering for 3 years before this.

 

[zerocool2009]

Personally for me.... meter readings taken aint the issue!

My issue, someone who can take 2 min to do analysis! Its like falling out a tree easy.

 

[alanB]

Contact Zenergy 011 781 7015 they provide exactly this service.

 

[richjdavies]

My issue, someone who can take 2 min to do analysis! Its like falling out a tree easy.

Analysis costs more than R20/unit/month unfortunately

Just another one of those things that can bring HUGE value, but too many boards have one or two trustees are too cheap to see the value that can be added (even when it is structured as a heads-you-win, tails-I-lose - i.e. BC wins no matter what)

 

[zerocool2009]

Analysis costs more than R20/unit/month unfortunately

Just another one of those things that can bring HUGE value, but too many boards have one or two trustees are too cheap to see the value that can be added (even when it is structured as a heads-you-win, tails-I-lose - i.e. BC wins no matter what)

Lol, employ me! I will show you in 2 min issues. For FREE.

 

[richjdavies]

Lol, employ me! I will show you in 2 min issues meters. For FREE.

Not free - just R20 - oh, and you have to walk around and read all the meters too

(oh and by the way, you aren't looking at monthly figures, but minute by minute figures - just looking at last week's heat pump to hot-water usage data for a block - 270,000 rows of data later... got a nice graph)

Long story short, there's another R10k/month efficiency nailed. When a client comes to the party, it's worth it - but when they keep saying "I'm not paying you R1000 to sit at a desk. My cousin will read all the meters for R100..."

 

[richjdavies]

PS - sorry don't want to derail the thread!

What kind of prices are people finding for the basic meter reading services?

We (at infoled.co.za // using our eBug product) provide services from R20/meter/month up to R200/meter/month. This is reading every HOUR at a minimum, up to every minute. As with most of the competitors we have full integration to big accounting packages (Pastel, MDA etc.).
We only do 'smart' meters - i.e. with comms to the internet via our eBugs (using mobile networks not your own). Any user can see their own usage 24/7 from the platform.

Meter / Equipment costs:
Electrical: from R700 for single phase to R1490 for three phase kWh, up to any price (R3000-10,000+) for advanced three phase meters (indeed more once CT's VT's etc. included for large scale stuff).
Water: R1295 for smaller sizes (<32mm o/d pipe) - larger ones depend on site specifics...
Comms: around R2500 per location (e.g. one DB with 20 meters in... = R2500 once).

(price above are 'list' there are discounts for large volumes with a 4-6 week lead-time)

 

[hellfire]

Lol, employ me! I will show you in 2 min issues meters. For FREE.

What's your home language?

 

[zerocool2009]

@richjdavies ... Ok I see where you are going ...

Met some solar guys, you can buy power using their hardware at a lower rate.

Sounds like the same with smart meters .... (you pay for the "nice to have")

 

[richjdavies]

@richjdavies ... Ok I see where you are going ...

Met some solar guys, you can buy power using their hardware at a lower rate.

Sounds like the same with smart meters .... (you pay for the "nice to have")

"Nice to have" though will likely save you more in the long run. That's why we prefer the "share of savings" model, as it's more win-win. Else it's us "promising" we can save you more than someone else.

Same with solar actually -- you will pay MORE for a professional service, but you'll also generate more and get more saving from that power (better matched to tariff etc...). Then again you can pay more and NOT get that service
[sooooo many solar tenders asking for XXXkW when that size will be hugely wasteful and not economic... I'm pretty bored now of telling potential customers, you should cut your solar-tender size in half and spend 20% of it on switches-LEDS-insulation and you'd spend less and save more!!]

It's the problem with a 'tender' for a product, when you don't have the internal expertise on how to use that product to the best advantage. The SA-way is to buy the hardware when actually you should buy the service - and have the experts leverage their expertise across your installation and hundreds of others (rather than incentivising them to sell you the BIGGEST/most-expensive option then run away!)

You got me ranting again - sorry

I am interested in what prices you get from others though - so please say - it's difficult to get pricing on this stuff most of the time.

 

[zerocool2009]

On the topic of water and elec (I see that Tswhane now is charging a FIXED R200 per month for water and sanitation less than 9KL used.

I see that as you drive to KFC, order a bucket of chicken, and only get a street wise 2

 

[richjdavies]

That's not uncommon nowdays. City's

On the topic of water and elec (I see that Tswhane now is charging a FIXED R200 per month for water and sanitation less than 9KL used.

That's not unusual nowadays. As people have realised that solar + bore-holes can be cheaper than the city, more people have moved 'mainly off-grid'. For the city to continue to maintain that infrastructure it makes sense for the price to more properly reflect the costs - i.e. more to do with maintaining the wire/pipe, than the amount of power / water that goes down it.

City of Cape Town has been particularly cheeky on this - adding it to the monthly rates bill, rather than the prepaid power bill - in effect if you're on prepaid and renting, the cost of electricity is now partly on the landlords account (when it wasn't before!). Some landlords realised this, some didn't, and almost all do NOT have this properly reflected in their leases.
Lots of landlords still have contracts which reflect the first 6KL being free (i.e. in effect water is the landlords account) - but this hasn't been the case since the droughts of a few years ago - only indigent get the first 6KL free.