Setting up an ISP

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mo_to

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Hi

can anyone please tell me what do I need to setup an ISP?

I have a Radius Server, and I can setup a MicrotikOS server. Do I need a DSLAM switch?
Thats where I get confused...
 
No, you don't need a DSLAM - that switch belongs in a Telkom exchange and is used to connect ADSL lines.

BUT you need lots of everything else including a big bandwidth pipe. Why do you want to do this? It is not cost effective unless you have thousands of subscribers. Rather become a reseller for one of the bigger ISPs like Axxess.

Unless you want to run a mickey-mouse show, you will need more than just yourself and quite a bit of captital. Also, a license from ICASA.
 
i need to run my own radius server....can i host at someone like IS and still use my own Radius and authentication server? I'm sure they'll give me a big pipe?

cannot resell, really need to do my own radius..for the business model i'm setting up.
 
mo_to said:
Hi

can anyone please tell me what do I need to setup an ISP?

I have a Radius Server, and I can setup a MicrotikOS server. Do I need a DSLAM switch?
Thats where I get confused...
Click to expand...

Until local loop unbundling becomes a reality noone but Telkom can install DSLAMs in their exchanges.

I have to say that the questions you are asking show a disturbing lack of general knowledge about networking in general and ADSL networking in particular for someone who wants to setup an ISP.

Realistically you're not going to be able to set yourself up as a proper ISP without millions of rands in capital unless you want to be one of those lame ISPs who just resell other ISPs services.
 
mo_to said:
i need to run my own radius server....can i host at someone like IS and still use my own Radius and authentication server? I'm sure they'll give me a big pipe?

cannot resell, really need to do my own radius..for the business model i'm setting up.
Click to expand...

Check out http://www.webafrica.co.za/reseller/per_gb/

It's called "Per GB Realm" where you sell your bandwidth to your customers under your name with own authentication (meaning, [email protected] for adsl login for example) and only pay for the GB used. Like ISP's do. Then you can sell 3GB to your customer, and if he only uses 2GB, you only pay for 2GB, profiting on the 1GB extra you sold but never used.

They're soon becoming a Tier 1 provider meaning customized packages and bandwidth for all. :)
 
AcidRaZor said:
Check out http://www.webafrica.co.za/reseller/per_gb/

It's called "Per GB Realm" where you sell your bandwidth to your customers under your name with own authentication (meaning, [email protected] for adsl login for example) and only pay for the GB used. Like ISP's do. Then you can sell 3GB to your customer, and if he only uses 2GB, you only pay for 2GB, profiting on the 1GB extra you sold but never used.

They're soon becoming a Tier 1 provider meaning customized packages and bandwidth for all. :)
Click to expand...

This isn't really an ethical business model for selling bandwidth. This is exactly what ISPs have been doing to shaft consumers in South Africa for ages, why would we want to encourage ISPs to continue selling bandwidth this way?
 
deweyzeph said:
This isn't really an ethical business model for selling bandwidth. This is exactly what ISPs have been doing to shaft consumers in South Africa for ages, why would we want to encourage ISPs to continue selling bandwidth this way?
Click to expand...

Well, ethics doesn't really come into play here according to me.

You pay me for the 3gb of bandwidth you're going to use. This allows you to use up to 3gb of bandwidth on my network. It's not up to me to tell you how to spend your money or use it to it's full potential. I provide a service, as simple as that.

Remember, they're not guaranteed any profit whatsoever other than the small markup they have on the bandwidth if fully utilized. And this is how ISP's stay viable.

Look at it from another perspective (something you'll probably argue on that you don't have or don't need, but let's find common ground)

DSTV has like 120+ channels. You pay a monthly subscription of R400+

You work from 9 - 5 and don't watch TV in the morning because you're getting ready/driving to work. And you probably only watch a handful of the 120+ channels available. Yet, you pay for all those 120+ channels (don't argue fairness and Multichoice monopoly, I'm making an example ;) )

So now you're sitting there under-utilizing (because you don't watch much TV) a DSTV subscription. You have access to their channels. You can watch it at anytime you prefer. You can watch as many channels for as long as you want and not pay more than the subscription fee you already pay.

Does this make their business model unethical (barring the monopoly, crappy channels and lack of content, for example's sake...)

So by providing you with access to their network to be able to watch 120+ channels whenever you prefer (or download 3gb in that month), they're charging you for it regardless if you watched it or not, thus, subsidizing some other crappy channel's programming with it and lining their pockets with some nice profit...

Just saying ;)
 
Actually the DSTV analogy you use is exactly how we should be selling bandwidth. DSTV is a fixed cost, and as you say, it doesn't matter how many channels you watch or how long you watch them for, you still pay the same price every month.

Bandwidth should be the same. It shouldn't matter whether you download 1GB or 100GB, you should still pay the same fixed price every month. Bandwidth, like a satellite feed or a TV signal, is not a finite resource or commodity like water.

The movement of data at speed is the actual commodity, not the data itself. It therefore follows that ISPs should be charging consumers for the ability to move data and not for the volume of data. It doesn't cost a top-tier ISP anymore to move 1GB than it does to move 100GB.

A good analogy is that local governments charge you a flat-rate (through your rates) to use roads, but imagine the uproar if they tried to charge for each and every time you used the road. You only have to see people's negative attitudes towards toll roads to see how that works out.
 
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deweyzeph said:
I have to say that the questions you are asking show a disturbing lack of general knowledge about networking in general and ADSL networking in particular for someone who wants to setup an ISP.

Realistically you're not going to be able to set yourself up as a proper ISP without millions of rands in capital unless you want to be one of those lame ISPs who just resell other ISPs services.
Click to expand...

As I said, that I will be offering a very specific service which requires me to run my own Radius Server. It's all good to say that it's gonna cost millions of rands etc etc..but for what??

Can I simply not host my radius server at a data centre like IS, they connect me up with an account which breaks out to the net, and I handle my own billing and authentication??

I'm not interested in general ISP reselling..as I day again, I NEED to run my own Radius server...this application requires me to do that....my clients will NOT me joe in the street, but very specific clients related in a very specific field/industry.
 
You would need licensing and ipconnect and international bandwidth.
Then you need radius servers and ipconnect will get you your own realm.

If you don't have the above you would need to resell other licensee services
 
mo_to said:
As I said, that I will be offering a very specific service which requires me to run my own Radius Server. It's all good to say that it's gonna cost millions of rands etc etc..but for what??

Can I simply not host my radius server at a data centre like IS, they connect me up with an account which breaks out to the net, and I handle my own billing and authentication??

I'm not interested in general ISP reselling..as I day again, I NEED to run my own Radius server...this application requires me to do that....my clients will NOT me joe in the street, but very specific clients related in a very specific field/industry.
Click to expand...

Well, the advice you're going to get here is going to be pretty straight forward if you're constantly hiding details that might help us point you in the right direction, that's why they speculate about the price. Nobody can tell you specifically anything because you're not being specific enough.

So now we've determined you're NOT interested in setting up an ISP. That's awesome. So you won't sell to Joe Public. *applause*

Why do you *NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED* a RADIUS server then? Why does it NEEEEEEEEED to run at an ISP of some sorts. If you're not going to sell internet connectivity (something ISP's done, it's in the acronym, go google it) then what are your specific requirements *except* that you NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED a RADIUS server.

Remember, a RADIUS server is just for authentication to something else. So what are you planning to sell to these niche clientele of yours who isn't Joe Public and what are these specifics?

To me it sounds like you're:

a) NOT looking to become an ISP
b) NOT wanting to set up an ISP (internet service provider if you haven't googled yet)
c) NOT want to divulge any details but expect valid and helpful advice

So. Again. RADIUS server for authentication *to what*. The topic suggests "The internet"

This requires you to have (very expensive) agreements with either Telkom or IS (who would laugh at you if you can't at least guarantee 100GB+ worth of bandwidth, nevermind providing you with an IP Connect product allowing you to customize your INTERNET SERVICE PROVISION to your niche clients)

So if it's NOT an ISP. And you *neeeeeeeed* a RADIUS server to authenticate to your service. It means that your clients, using their existing internet connection (provided by anyone else) just NEED to login to your RADIUS server somehow to get access to *WHATEVER* service you're providing (obviously not internet)

Like I've mentioned. Web Africa allows you to resell per gig on your own realm. (If you really meant Internet Service Provision, aka, bandwidth/connectivity) using their RADIUS servers for authentication already setup, which ADSL lines would dial/connect to easy peasy. No mess no fuss.

You mentioned an application that requires this RADIUS server somehow... okay... great. But why not just get your application to allow connections made specifically via your own realm? Instead, you'd like to spend (literally millions) on getting a service up and running (for internet connectivity??) to niche clients who won't be Joe Public.... mkay then....

If you really don't want to give us anymore information, please feel free to PM me. I can keep a secret trust me. But don't expect us to give you solid advice and specific pricing if you can't tell us what you need it for and what you really aim at doing in the end. Like I said, from your later description. It sounds like you don't even want to provide internet to your clients at all....
 
Come to think of it, RADIUS servers are hosted by IS, but it's usually for inter-linking branches who run on dedicated lines (who already have the "intarwebs" and need to connect to an extranet of sorts and authenticate with a central server for data etc)

Is that possibly what you're referring to?

Because I can speculate till I'm blue in the face...
 
Sign up and purchase from SAIX a 64k wholesale line. Get yourself an ECNS and IECNS license so you can resell internet and create networks.

Then you can either host your radius server on that line or, host your radius server in a data centre somewhere. Signup for radius authentication services with SAIX, you have various options and pricing mechanisms. Remember if you host your own radius server if your diginet/martis link goes down then your clients will not be able to authenticate, so I suggest hosting your radius in a data centre.
 
essentially, we should be customers, paying for our "4mbit (contended) share of telkom's 130Gbit capacity", but instead Telkom (and the other 1st tier ISPs) choose to slap on the illusion that the BANDWIDTH itself is what costs, essentially making us 'fake' CONSUMERS rather than the customers we should be. Simply put, bandwidth should be free. Using the above DSTV analogy, it corresponds with this scenario in that we should be paying for speed, not capacity - because that's what these ISP's are doing. If i wish to download 100GB on my 384kbps line a month, for the mere cost of 384k line rental, I should be able to do so.
Ok sure, put in a fair usage policy so that heavy abusers eating many terabytes a month are cautioned - but 1GB as entry level? and for like R60? You got to be kidding me. Here's a carton containing 64 boxes of smarties - just beware there's only one smarty in each smartie box... don't say you're being ripped off and aren't happy you can't enjoy a full box, the way it should be
 
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warwickw said:
Sign up and purchase from SAIX a 64k wholesale line. Get yourself an ECNS and IECNS license so you can resell internet and create networks.

Then you can either host your radius server on that line or, host your radius server in a data centre somewhere. Signup for radius authentication services with SAIX, you have various options and pricing mechanisms. Remember if you host your own radius server if your diginet/martis link goes down then your clients will not be able to authenticate, so I suggest hosting your radius in a data centre.
Click to expand...
thats more like the answer I'm looking for... now I buy the SAIX line, I host it somewhere, JINX or DIDATA or wherever has a good data centre.

So from there, my radius server connect the the line SAIX give me and breaks out to the internet...I install a microtikOS loaded PC and all ADSL lines gets routed to that authentication server..

so: customer-->>adsl line --> microtikOS-->radius server-->all in data centre-->saix line

correct?
 
Nope install the line where you want, you actually dont want to use the line as it is firstly too slow, and secondly you have no redundancy. But you need the line to be able to sell SAIX's wholesale services, which is what you want.

Get yourself a server and host it in a good data centre, thats all you need. SAIX will then be able to authorise ADSL users against your radius server, once setup, and the the users will be using SAIX's bandwidth, you just authenticate them and bill them, SAIX provide the bandwidth.

If however you want to provide your own bandwidth as well, then its a much bigger issue, as you will also need an IP Connect, plus good upstream bandwidth, plus mail servers, possibly news server, and all of this will need to be redundant. Basically this is very very expensive.
 
And you probably don't want to use Mikrotik on an ISP level. Its all good and well on wireless towers ect, and maybe at home, but for an ISP you wan't to run something more stable like Cisco routers.
 
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