SharePoint development

[Shi]

Hi there,

I am a developer and looking to add SharePoint to my list of skills. I didn't realise how much there is to learn about it. Just looking for some advice on how one would tackle learning SharePoint.

 

[[)roi(]]

It makes the simple things very simple, and the hard things impossible.

Your time will be better spent elsewhere.

 

[halfmoonforever]

how one would tackle learning SharePoint.

It's easier (and more productive) to bang your head against a wall for 8 hours a day than it would be to learn that.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Bloody no.

 

[scudsucker]

I just wrote out a long post explaining g my painful experiences with SP. But it got lost on submit.

The short version is this. SP is ****ty. You can abstract most of the ****tiness by using SP as a CMS 'Admin' area, and then use AJAX to populate the data on a more sensible HTML site, using this amazingly excellent lib:

https://spservices.codeplex.com

You'll still hate it, but you will hate it less.

 

[[)roi(]]

I just wrote out a long post explaining g my painful experiences with SP. But it got lost on submit.

The short version is this. SP is ****ty. You can abstract most of the ****tiness by using SP as a CMS 'Admin' area, and then use AJAX to populate the data on a more sensible HTML site, using this amazingly excellent lib:

https://spservices.codeplex.com

You'll still hate it, but you will hate it less.

Sharepoint plugin didn't like your tone; crashed the submit...

 

[reactor_sa]

Worst ever product to develop custom parts for. Hated it. Almost as much as VBA for office.

I won't even go into the performance of said product, my phone can't even handle the product name in plain text.

 

[kripstoe]

The short version is this. SP is ****ty. You can abstract most of the ****tiness by using SP as a CMS 'Admin' area, and then use AJAX to populate the data on a more sensible HTML site, using this amazingly excellent lib:

Worst ever product to develop custom parts for. Hated it. Almost as much as VBA for office.

I'm genuinely intrigued. Which aspects did you guys struggle with? Scenarios, etc.

 

[scudsucker]

On my project, for starters, we were not allowed to create a new master page for a major redesign... had to use the existing one. That in itself is not SP's fault, but it is kind of ****ty when on page load I was manipulating the DOM to get the elements I needed added to the page....


But in general it is clunky, hard to apply decent UX design, hard to customise, and ugly.

 

[[)roi(]]

I'm genuinely intrigued. Which aspects did you guys struggle with? Scenarios, etc.

Sorry but this topic has been debated to death, so instead of trying to revive a rotting skunk.
I rather suggest you spend some time on Google... and let that be your guide. In short there are far better alternatives..

 

[kripstoe]

Sorry but this topic has been debated to death, so instead of trying to revive a rotting skunk.
I rather suggest you spend some time on Google... and let that be your guide. In short there are far better alternatives..

 

[kripstoe]

On my project, for starters, we were not allowed to create a new master page for a major redesign... had to use the existing one. That in itself is not SP's fault, but it is kind of ****ty when on page load I was manipulating the DOM to get the elements I needed added to the page....

But in general it is clunky, hard to apply decent UX design, hard to customise, and ugly.

Version? Anything prior to 2013 I would agree on most accounts, but still possible to do cool things. Which UX issues and which aspects did you find challenging to customize?

 

[scud]

Don't do it!!

 

[Shi]

Thanks for the heads up. One issue with these types of frustrations is that management doesn't know the nitty gritty of your frustrations and might be left thinking you taking too long or full of excuses.

SharePoint does seem to be growing in SA. What are the salaries like for SharePoint devs?

 

[[)roi(]]

Thanks for the heads up. One issue with these types of frustrations is that management doesn't know the nitty gritty of your frustrations and might be left thinking you taking too long or full of excuses.

SharePoint does seem to be growing in SA. What are the salaries like for SharePoint devs?

Sharepoint was born out of the belief that Microsoft needed to compete with Lotus Notes; little did they know how awful most Lotus Notes applications were, including the Web integrated ones. Microsoft pretty much adopted all the worst ideas from Lotus Notes, so if you must use it try to avoid all the worst use cases / practices.

As to its longevity, consider for a moment where Lotus Notes is today; prior to SP it used to be the most popular product in this space.

Best thing you can do for your company/client is to continually question whether there isn't a better/simpler way to do what is being asked of SP.

 

[Pho3nix]

SharePoint does seem to be growing in SA. What are the salaries like for SharePoint devs?

As consultants? R800 and up an hour if you know your ****. Add Nintex to the mix and you are in R1k territory.
But is your sanity worth that much?

 

[scudsucker]

Version? Anything prior to 2013 I would agree on most accounts, but still possible to do cool things. Which UX issues and which aspects did you find challenging to customize?

It was 2010 I think. I hear 2013 is much better.

So what happened is not entirely SP's fault. I joined a company that had recently taken on a big client, one who used SP extensively. Our job was to rebrand one subsite in the cluster.

Our design team did an amazing job - for a website. Not for a SP site. In fact no-one in the company had ever used SP at all, and the designers had no idea of the limitations imposed, so much so that we were already starting dev work (this is when I joined) when we were told that corporate policy dictated the master page cannot be edited, and they were unwilling to allow us to make a second master page.

This of course led to very complicated problems. It's one thing getting the correct data into a module and displaying it; it is quite another to do so within the restraints of a very limited master page.

In the end we created a Frankenstein monster with extensive re-writing of the DOM in order to change the master page on the fly; and using AJAX requests to populate the content. I must have done 40 to 50 hours overtime/week for 2 months to get it working, but in the end, we did. And the client loved it.

However, it was pretty much unmaintainable, so I am somewhat glad that they never came back to ask for updates or support, and I've left the company now - so it is no longer my problem. I did document it, inside SP, so if anyone ever goes digging around they will find instructions...

 

[Pho3nix]

Sorry but this topic has been debated to death, so instead of trying to revive a rotting skunk.
I rather suggest you spend some time on Google... and let that be your guide. In short there are far better alternatives..

Having worked with SharePoint since 2007, I agree with you BUT there are ways around most SharePoint BS. And if it doesn't work like it should.
Use SharePoint as a container for your custom apps, that DO what you want them too.

/insert are you crazy ?!?!

Yes.. I work with SharePoint. I know how crazy I am.

 

[Pho3nix]

It was 2010 I think. I hear 2013 is much better.

So what happened is not entirely SP's fault. I joined a company that had recently taken on a big client, one who used SP extensively. Our job was to rebrand one subsite in the cluster.

Our design team did an amazing job - for a website. Not for a SP site. In fact no-one in the company had ever used SP at all, and the designers had no idea of the limitations imposed, so much so that we were already starting dev work (this is when I joined) when we were told that corporate policy dictated the master page cannot be edited, and they were unwilling to allow us to make a second master page.

This of course led to very complicated problems. It's one thing getting the correct data into a module and displaying it; it is quite another to do so within the restraints of a very limited master page.

In the end we created a Frankenstein monster with extensive re-writing of the DOM in order to change the master page on the fly; and using AJAX requests to populate the content. I must have done 40 to 50 hours overtime/week for 2 months to get it working, but in the end, we did. And the client loved it.

However, it was pretty much unmaintainable, so I am somewhat glad that they never came back to ask for updates or support, and I've left the company now - so it is no longer my problem. I did document it, inside SP, so if anyone ever goes digging around they will find instructions...

company in PTA/Centurion side per chance that you worked for?

 

[[)roi(]]

Having worked with SharePoint since 2007, I agree with you BUT there are ways around most SharePoint BS. And if it doesn't work like it should.
Use SharePoint as a container for your custom apps, that DO what you want them too.

/insert are you crazy ?!?!

Yes.. I work with SharePoint. I know how crazy I am.

Yuck that's one of the awful use cases... I have stripped Lotus Notes and SP from many clients who had paid their license fees and then proceeded to trying to find way to justify that expenditure when far better alternatives are available.