Shhhh... The Surge is Working

[kilo39]

America isn't a person. It's a diverse political entity, the landscape of which changes every four years. What could possibly be the point of an "occupy forever" strategy when they're never more than four years away from a "get the **** out" government? Don't be silly.

That the Americans armed forces weren't prepared for an occupation is obvious. They were fully anticipating being out by now.

Isn't GB in his second term? (Hardly four years.) Plain fact: without the backlash against bush and his cronies, yes, they would be there for ever (otherwise why build "the biggest embassy in the world.") Bah.

Post a link please (or don't expect any response.)

A Sorry State
Jan. 27, 2007 - President George W. Bush concluded his annual State of the Union address this week with the words “the State of our Union is strong … our cause in the world is right … and tonight that cause goes on.” Maybe so, but the state of the Bush administration is at its worst yet, according to the latest NEWSWEEK Poll. The president’s approval ratings are at their lowest point in the poll’s history—30 percent—and more than half the country (58 percent) say they wish the Bush presidency were simply over, a sentiment that is almost unanimous among Democrats (86 percent), and is shared by a clear majority (59 percent) of independents and even one in five (21 percent) Republicans.

 

[Alan]

There you have it folks a lesson from teacher LG live from the belly of the beast

How's life in America?

Enjoying the fruits of the evil empire.

You do know your arguments would carry more weight if you'd not actually moved to live under this evil regime

 

[fewl]

Isn't GB in his second term? (Hardly four years.) Plain fact: without the backlash against bush and his cronies, yes, they would be there for ever (otherwise why build "the biggest embassy in the world.") Bah.

Never more than four years away from another election means never being more than four years away from a government with potentially polar opposite foreign policy. Planning like you suggest is unrealistic, and a product of childish, conspiracy-tard net culture. People watch too much 24

Again: the Americans are responsible for security and reconstruction in the host nation. They need offices to house the biggest foreign affairs beaurocracy any nation has ever deployed, as well as a completely unprecedented civil affairs deployment. It's a unique building to deal with a unique situation.

Post a link please (or don't expect any response.)

SOURCE

 

[kilo39]

Never more than four years away from another election means never being more than four years away from a government with potentially polar opposite foreign policy. Planning like you suggest is unrealistic, and a product of childish, conspiracy-tard net culture. People watch too much 24

Again: the Americans are responsible for security and reconstruction in the host nation. They need offices to house the biggest foreign affairs beaurocracy any nation has ever deployed, as well as a completely unprecedented civil affairs deployment. It's a unique building to deal with a unique situation.

SOURCE

Which part of delusional don't you understand?

Retired Army Col. Andrew Bacevich told Ricks (Fiasco, pp. 75-76) that PowerPoint war planning was the ultimate insult:

"Here may be the clearest manifestation of OSD's [Office of Secretary of Defense] contempt for the accumulated wisdom of the military profession and of the assumption among forward thinkers that technology -- above all information technology -- has rendered obsolete the conventions traditionally governing the preparation and conduct of war. To imagine that PowerPoint slides can substitute for such means is really the height of recklessness."

Or maybe that should be: "Which part of lies don't you understand?"

... and maybe you should watch less of 24 (which I've never seen) to realise when a conspiracy is biting you in the arse.

(and why did I have to ask you for a link?)

 

[fewl]

Or maybe that should be: "Which part of lies don't you understand?"

Yes. A left wing website is using secret documentation they aquired through the freedom of information act to discredit the planning behind the war and you're all like, "no, no it's part of teh right wing conspirsah!!!!11one". Look at the number of troops they've got in-country for goodness sake. They do not, and never have, had enough assets to occupy Iraq in the long term. Just by looking at the deployment it's blatantly obvious that it wasn't in the planning

You have a point of view that doesn't stand up to logic or common sense, but you're hanging onto it because you're married to the idea that the world is a grand conspiracy

 

[fewl]

dont forget the classic line about 'they'll greet us as liberators'..

Read Evan Wrights' Generation Kill. It follows the Recon Marines who were at the tippity-tip of the invasion spear and some of the first Americans to set foot in Baghdad. You'll love it. It's full of Americans killing civilians, American command failures, and American screw ups. It also documents the reaction of the civilians who lined the streets greeting the troops as liberators chanting, "Bush, Bush, Bush!"

And how things gradually started to change when the Iraqi's realized that the Americans were completely unprepared for the occupation, and unable to prevent the sectarian killings and score-settling that immediately followed the fall of Saddam.

Evan Wright is a left wing source. He's one of your guys.

 

[kilo39]

Yes. A left wing website is using secret documentation they aquired through the freedom of information act to discredit the planning behind the war and you're all like, "no, no it's part of teh right wing conspirsah!!!!11one". Look at the number of troops they've got in-country for goodness sake. They do not, and never have, had enough assets to occupy Iraq in the long term. Just by looking at the deployment it's blatantly obvious that it wasn't in the planning

You have a point of view that doesn't stand up to logic or common sense, but you're hanging onto it because you're married to the idea that the world is a grand conspiracy

Um excuse me. We are talking about america. It has all the assets it requires (witness The Surge.)

Plain fact: (and to go back to the beginning of the thread) they have no interest in a victory (or anything else) certainly not leaving the country. Terror and mayhem suit their (the neocons) long term agenda. They will stay and commit (in the fairy world) the number of assets required. No assets, no victory. Simply really.

 

[LoneGunman]

To get a good view of the reality of Iraq, source and watch 'The War Tapes' - where film makers gave a number of Iraq-bound troops, vid
camera's and let them film what they saw.

You'll see a close up first-hand view of what is unfolding there, that is unlike
any of the distant and sanitized imagery one may have absorbed..
Its available via the usual torrent suspects..

 

[LoneGunman]

as far as the chanting of Bush etc..

its historical record that the US military brought in their own 'rent a crowd'
to stand around the statue of Saddam being toppled, in a mostly deserted
square under guard by tanks - in order to provide a nice positive PR image
for the stupid sheeple who figured 'mission accomplished'.

And, by the way, why were the Oil refineries and Government buildings
relating to Oil, the only ones that the US army bothered to protect from
looters?

The insurgency isnt about ignorant people upset at the failure to stop
ethnic violence, its about a unified people who've realized that they've
been invaded and occupied for no good reason.

And - as has been seen from busted UK and US soldiers arrested dressed
as Arabs, carrying explosives - the occupying force is doing everything it can
to spark a civil war, in order to divide and rule.

More civilians have died since the US invasion, than died under decades
of Saddam..
It's the OCCUPATION, STUPID

 

[fewl]

Um excuse me. We are talking about america. It has all the assets it requires (witness The Surge.)

First, the Surge is aimed at Baghdad and Baghdad isn't Anbar, let alone Iraq. Second, the Americans have a small, professional army supplemented by the national guard (who are people with jobs they have to get back to). Without instituting the draft they do not have the assets to occupy Iraq indefinitely. After after the mid-term election Bush couldn't institute the draft he wanted to (and he doesn't).

Plain fact: (and to go back to the beginning of the thread) they have no interest in a victory (or anything else) certainly not leaving the country. Terror and mayhem suit their (the neocons) long term agenda. They will stay and commit (in the fairy world) the number of assets required. No assets, no victory. Simply really.

Writing a bunch of words after "plain fact" does not an actual fact make. There's nothing beyond conspiracy-tard fantasy to support any of that contradictory left wing propagandist nonsense. Everything on then ground (I spend 8 months a year, every year on the ground in Iraq) suggests otherwise.

But as I said, you're married to that crap. You'll believe what you want you want to believe

 

[Xarog]

There you have it folks a lesson from teacher LG live from the belly of the beast

How's life in America?

Enjoying the fruits of the evil empire.

You do know your arguments would carry more weight if you'd not actually moved to live under this evil regime

Yet another example of an ad-hominem argument. Where he lives is irrelevant to the correctness of his argument.

 

[LoneGunman]

Couldn't have put it better myself. Can't fight the evidence,
so tries to insinuate that my geographic location is somehow involved
in the issue!
It would be funny, if it wasn't such a sad example
of the lack of ability to reason intelligently

 

[Alan]

Yet another example of an ad-hominem argument. Where he lives is irrelevant to the correctness of his argument.

But it's revelant to his views and bias.

How you supposed to believe him that the U.S is the "evil empire" and akin to nazis when he himself chose to live there. Bwhahahah what a joke.

While you saying you'd rather live in Iran than America exposes your fanaticism because only a fantic would say something so ludicrous. Your posts just back that up.

You can call it what you like but you can't refute these facts. He did it and you said it and that reveals your mindset before you even make your arguments. That doesn't mean people won't refute your argument because your original mindset makes that rather easy.


*sigh*

 

[chiskop]

Is it really the 'biggest embassy on earth'? Surely they'd have a huge embassy in allied countries like those in the EU and Japan,
and also in places like Russia and China - where the real economic
struggles play themselves out. Iraq, oil and all is small fry
compared to those other places. Maybe it just happens
to be BIG.

Interesting Washington Post article: How Much Embassy Is Too Much?

Info graphic

The [Baghdad] mission's closely guarded budget is a source of controversy at State, and across the federal government. At $923 million for the 2006 fiscal year, the budget was 20 times that of the Beijing embassy's that year, according to the State Department. More than two-thirds of the money pays for security. Salaries for about 600 staff from other federal agencies are not included in that figure, nor are some expenses.

"Maintaining an oversized mega-embassy in Baghdad is draining personnel and resources away from every other U.S. embassy around the world, and all for what?" said a senior State Department official, who spoke anonymously because of the sensitivity of the issue.

 

[Xarog]

But it's revelant to his views and bias.

Rubbish.

How you supposed to believe him that the U.S is the "evil empire" and akin to nazis when he himself chose to live there. Bwhahahah what a joke.

Let's say he's stirring for trouble and he doesn't even believe a single word of what he's saying, or that he's playing the devils advocate... His argument could still be valid. Whether or not he's arguing a point he geniunely holds or not is entirely irrelevant.

While you saying you'd rather live in Iran than America exposes your fanaticism because only a fantic would say something so ludicrous. Your posts just back that up.

Yeah, why should I trust the word of someone who by his own admission got permanently mindf#cked by behaviour modifying drugs?

You can call it what you like but you can't refute these facts.

Rubbish. They're nothing more than opinionated judgements. My points are backed up with facts if you care to examine them. My personal preference to which country I'd like to live in, or my favourite colour, or my medical history has got absolutely buggerall to do with the validity of my argument, and it's time you realised that. If you can't attack the argument on the merits of the argument, don't bother, you're just wasting your time and making yourself look like a complete twat.

*sigh*

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[marine1]

Maybe LG actually works for the CIA? Or maybe, if not, we should let them know his feeling about the US

 

[marine1]

His arguments are not valid when he spews the rubbish he reads all day long on these conspiracy websites. Maybe its from years of acid taking or something like that. The whole world is not out to get him believe it or not.

 

[Xarog]

His arguments are not valid when he spews the rubbish he reads all day long on these conspiracy websites. Maybe its from years of acid taking or something like that. The whole world is not out to get him believe it or not.

Then you should have no trouble disproving what he says, based on the merits of the situation, eh?

 

[Amerikanse]

Um excuse me. We are talking about america. It has all the assets it requires (witness The Surge.)

Plain fact: (and to go back to the beginning of the thread) they have no interest in a victory (or anything else) certainly not leaving the country. Terror and mayhem suit their (the neocons) long term agenda. They will stay and commit (in the fairy world) the number of assets required. No assets, no victory. Simply really.

Garbage. Contrary to popular belief, neocons (what the hay is a neocon anyway) do not run this country any more than W runs this country. No single entity controls the American people. To think so is delusional.

 

[Alan]

Rubbish.

How sad

Let's say he's stirring for trouble and he doesn't even believe a single word of what he's saying, or that he's playing the devils advocate... His argument could still be valid. Whether or not he's arguing a point he geniunely holds or not is entirely irrelevant.

Yeah so. It just doesn't help his case. If he truly believes what he propagates then why did he move there. It really weakens an argument when the person contradicts what he propagates by his actions. Still that doesn't mean that propaganda shouldn't be challenged. It just makes it all the more easier.

Yeah, why should I trust the word of someone who by his own admission got permanently mindf#cked by behaviour modifying drugs?

If you say so

Rubbish. They're nothing more than opinionated judgements. My points are backed up with facts if you care to examine them. My personal preference to which country I'd like to live in, or my favourite colour, or my medical history has got absolutely buggerall to do with the validity of my argument, and it's time you realised that. If you can't attack the argument on the merits of the argument, don't bother, you're just wasting your time and making yourself look like a complete twat.

I have attacked your arguments on merits. You just have to read through my posts and you'll see it. Your posts expose your fanaticism and bias but that now "infamous" comment wraps it up in a few simple words

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Hopefully on this subject. I somehow I doubt it though.