Shower Floor Repair - Help!

RandomRando said:
This is also what i think to do.

But my issue is right now is the cost implication of this. Im not sure i have enough left now, to do this.

Second, my concern now arises that because this house is raised above the FGL, where else this exact issue might be... i.e: how big is the cavity really? Is it just this bathroom or is it much bigger.

Sleeping on this issue last night, it occurred to me that, short of the shower drain being recessed, i would have never known about the slab issue. Given the house design, it occurs to me that this must be an issue in other houses where owners are blissfully unawares. How would one end up finding such an issue / what would it cause to an unsuspecting owner? I mean, lets be honest - who regularly checks under their floor slabs for this kind of thing.

Lastly, as much as it instills dread, i agree that itd probably best to get an engineer (or a builder, but preferably an engineer) out to asess the issue and determine a way forward for repair. I am based in Randpark. Any recommendations on who to contact, before i go to google for names?
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It is an issue.

So I sold my old house 3 years ago and we had an odd damp problem that looked like it was going to cost a fortune to figure out.
We had a shower with a concrete screed (no tiles) and the damp was in the bedroom adjacent and then in another bathroom on the other side of the bedroom.
We always assumed that the damp was in the second bathroom - which shared a wall with the neighbour (its sub devided) and there were already a few arguments about it.

Then this old guy comes to look at the damp and gives a very cheap quote and tells me to dig up the shower because the shower drain is disconnected from the pipe. He says its causing all the damp.
Sure enough, I get my contractor to open up the shower drain and sure enough there is a 2cm gap between the shower drain and the drain pipe. Obviously some of the water goes down the drain but a lot of it was then seeping into the floor like yours. The shower was fine but the screed was discoloured and we were going to remove it and tile it for the new owners anyway.
Its an old house where the wooden flooring was replaced and filled in with concrete. The shower was also raised.

I'm pretty sure if we had left it long enough it would have made a cavity like yours.
Its been 3 years and have had no damp complaints from the new owners (and they have not held back on communications )

So yes I think its a problem many others might have, even a crack in the pipe would do this over time. We lived in the house for 10 years and it had just been renovated when we got it. The damp took a while to show.
 
Carl_Johnson said:
Oh, thanks.
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It's more a case of subsidence. In this specific case not quite as bad yet. The crack on the outer wall is thin suggesting plaster only so OP seems ok. Large cracks on walls are usually the clear tell-tale.

But as mentioned earlier an engineer is needed here. He needs to know how far this goes.

- Get an engineer out.
- Speak to your insurer.
- Speak to your bank.
- Get it fixed and do not DIY structural damage.
 
maumau said:
@RandomRando are you somewhere near that dip where the vlei is in Randpark? Where that humungous water pipe burst and was left exposed for months?

Not doxxing you just trying to find out where the water's coming from.
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I cant say, im not from the area. Originally from KZN. Moved up this end of the world last year.
 
Rayne said:
It's more a case of subsidence. In this specific case not quite as bad yet. The crack on the outer wall is thin suggesting plaster only so OP seems ok. Large cracks on walls are usually the clear tell-tale.

But as mentioned earlier an engineer is needed here. He needs to know how far this goes.

- Get an engineer out.
- Speak to your insurer.
- Speak to your bank.
- Get it fixed and do not DIY structural damage.
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Agreed with the above. I do not intend to try DIY this. There are things i know are out of my capable limits, this being one of them.

Resetting a 50mm drain pipe - no problem. Sorting out some plaster cracks (opening and seeing if the are just plaster cracks that is) - no problem.

Cavities under concrete slabs? No way. Call the experts.
 
Last edited:
Ok.

So i need to understand how to approach this.

1.) Get an engineer out to assess and provide a report. (Recommendations, please?)

2.) Contact the transferring attorney with said report? Or another attorney? The house was explicitly sold "voets teots" and like ive mentioned, i knew more or less what I was walking into. I checked the roof space for rot /termites, water leaks etc. At face value, i knew there was work to be done, but obviously didn't want to buy a house where the roof would fall down for example or would have major structural defects. (I made this clear to the agent as well. )

My exact words were: "...We just want to ensure there will be no major nasty surprises coming our way that may be structural / roof issues that require huge cost to sort. The TLC works like the pool, outside wall repainting from the pipe replacement and work required inside that i saw briefly during the showhouse dont bother me..."

Considering the above, im not one to cause a fight. I understand that when buying (not building) a house, you should accept the good and the bad (within reason) as it'll never be perfect. This property was marketed below the area value as it needed work like new finishes, cabinets etc. The pool is also empty and in bad shape(which suits us because we want to make it smaller and redesign it in the future anyways). So again, i knew there would be TLC required, but with elbow grease and some randelas, we could tackle the bits in a somewhat piecemeal fashion over time..things like a bathroom remodel for example. However, we would still need to be able to use the bathroom lol.

Thinking about all this and playing devils advocate, would i not need to prove the previous owner knew about the issue? They knew about the shower drain issue, but could they not argue they didn't know about the cavity issue? Hell, even the leaking galvanized pipe in the wall might not necessarily mean they knew about what was below the slab? Wouldnt i need some sort of proof they knew about this and hid it? The owners were elderly folk in their 70s looking to downsize and be near their children. It was obvious they couldn't keep up with the property maintenance - even the yard was heavily overgrown. Dont misunderstand me: im not defending them, but ive seen this movie before with my late parents property too.


Absent this proof, i am under the impression that, well, im in it to win it now. I need to understand the extent and determine the cost to fix it. If i cant fix it straight away, owing to finances, is there a reality where i can at least get the shower operational? Our plan was always to do some 'major' renovating after a year or two of moving in so perhaps this will then need to be the first item on the agenda
 
RandomRando said:
but could they not argue they didn't know about the cavity issue?
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They knew, beyond doubt. They even removed all the brickwork to have a proper look.

Can you post some pics, section, detail and floor plans of that area floor plans?

My money is still on that used to be a;

1. Timber Subfloor. They didn't compact the ground and then poured concrete on top. No damp proofing. DIY job. Usually you will also find subfloor airbrick or airvents.
1712316920675.png
1712317053598.png

2. There used to be a Porch / Verandah or something. The enclosed it. Didn't compact. No damp proofing. Poured slab on top. You will spot the old foundation walls and if you dig further down there should be footings. You will also find damproofing from existing house.

1712317295451.png
 
RandomRando said:
I need to understand the extent and determine the cost to fix it.
Click to expand...
Easy peazy. Grab a builder or two.

Remove concrete floor. Hire Jack Hammer.

Check support for boundary walls. Check Foundations.

Remove some of existing ground and fill up with Hardcore Filling and Compact.

Maybe add thin layer of sand (to protect damp-proofing from hardcore)

Add Damp-proofing.

Drill into existing slab/foundation and add rebar that ties into new slab.

Pour new Slab.

Do all the waterproofing and prep for the new shower etc.

Bob's your uncle.
 
RedViking said:
Easy peazy. Grab a builder or two.

Remove concrete floor. Hire Jack Hammer.

Check support for boundary walls. Check Foundations.

Remove some of existing ground and fill up with Hardcore Filling and Compact.

Maybe add thin layer of sand (to protect damp-proofing from hardcore)

Add Damp-proofing.

Drill into existing slab/foundation and add rebar that ties into new slab.

Pour new Slab.

Do all the waterproofing and prep for the new shower etc.

Bob's your uncle.
Click to expand...
I know im asking for a crystal ball prediction here.. but estimate of this? 40 - 50k?
 
RedViking said:
They knew, beyond doubt. They even removed all the brickwork to have a proper look.

Can you post some pics, section, detail and floor plans of that area floor plans?

My money is still on that used to be a;

1. Timber Subfloor. They didn't compact the ground and then poured concrete on top. No damp proofing. DIY job. Usually you will also find subfloor airbrick or airvents.
View attachment 1686723
View attachment 1686729

2. There used to be a Porch / Verandah or something. The enclosed it. Didn't compact. No damp proofing. Poured slab on top. You will spot the old foundation walls and if you dig further down there should be footings. You will also find damproofing from existing house.

View attachment 1686731
Click to expand...
Let me have a look later at the plans.

Currently with the garden refuse removal team in the (now).yard that once was a jungle
 
You'll waste your time involving your Building insurance. This was either the result of the natural settlement of the fill material under the floor over the years, or due to a leaking shower trap, outlet or the shower floor itself. Santam's Building cover for instance excludes any damage by any gradual operating cause. They will thus not assist. This damage is clearly gradual, i.e. the water would leak intermittently as and when the shower was used.

Not much hope of claiming against previous owner either. Remember, any indications of previous repairs might point to work having been done by an even earlier owner. It could also be that they had some issue and relied solely on some or other contractor to effect the repairs. He might not have done it "properly", but as far as they are concerned, the repairs were done and completed. Thus nothing to declare.

Unfortunately for u, best course of action is to just get a decent builder out for advice on how to proceed.
 
RandomRando said:
Ok.

So i need to understand how to approach this.

1.) Get an engineer out to assess and provide a report. (Recommendations, please?)

2.) Contact the transferring attorney with said report? Or another attorney? The house was explicitly sold "voets teots" and like ive mentioned, i knew more or less what I was walking into. I checked the roof space for rot /termites, water leaks etc. At face value, i knew there was work to be done, but obviously didn't want to buy a house where the roof would fall down for example or would have major structural defects. (I made this clear to the agent as well. )

My exact words were: "...We just want to ensure there will be no major nasty surprises coming our way that may be structural / roof issues that require huge cost to sort. The TLC works like the pool, outside wall repainting from the pipe replacement and work required inside that i saw briefly during the showhouse dont bother me..."

Considering the above, im not one to cause a fight. I understand that when buying (not building) a house, you should accept the good and the bad (within reason) as it'll never be perfect. This property was marketed below the area value as it needed work like new finishes, cabinets etc. The pool is also empty and in bad shape(which suits us because we want to make it smaller and redesign it in the future anyways). So again, i knew there would be TLC required, but with elbow grease and some randelas, we could tackle the bits in a somewhat piecemeal fashion over time..things like a bathroom remodel for example. However, we would still need to be able to use the bathroom lol.

Thinking about all this and playing devils advocate, would i not need to prove the previous owner knew about the issue? They knew about the shower drain issue, but could they not argue they didn't know about the cavity issue? Hell, even the leaking galvanized pipe in the wall might not necessarily mean they knew about what was below the slab? Wouldnt i need some sort of proof they knew about this and hid it? The owners were elderly folk in their 70s looking to downsize and be near their children. It was obvious they couldn't keep up with the property maintenance - even the yard was heavily overgrown. Dont misunderstand me: im not defending them, but ive seen this movie before with my late parents property too.


Absent this proof, i am under the impression that, well, im in it to win it now. I need to understand the extent and determine the cost to fix it. If i cant fix it straight away, owing to finances, is there a reality where i can at least get the shower operational? Our plan was always to do some 'major' renovating after a year or two of moving in so perhaps this will then need to be the first item on the agenda
Click to expand...

I think voets toets means no comeback at all from you.
 
maumau said:
@RandomRando are you somewhere near that dip where the vlei is in Randpark? Where that humungous water pipe burst and was left exposed for months?

Not doxxing you just trying to find out where the water's coming from.
Click to expand...

Welties has the same issue. Anywhere with a river nearby apparently.

At OP look at underpinning. It’s expensive and needs an engineer to advise but if your bathroom looks like this, I’d look around the house for cracks on the walls and water sitting in areas after rain as the rest of the house most likely is the same. Insurance most likely won’t pay for this.

I wouldn’t recommend trying to fix this yourself
 
My passage first had a crack and later it went down on the one side up two 2 centimeters. Insurance came with stories. a builder came and hire a jack hammer, remove the floor till the cavity ended. he then got cement and stuff, filled it and hire a compactor and filled it. Easy as that. Make your piping that it will last for long.
 
Thanks folks.

Im going to look at the plans shortly and draw some sketches for reference, then will post them here for those that asked.

I'm just a *bit* knackered after a long day pulling up carpets and skirtings, cutting trees down etc. Body is aching and coming with stories.

Ive already resided myself to kak and betaal. As i said, im in it to win it now. I need a builder to come and close up a window in the main lounge, as well as remove a sliding door and make it a window in the master bedroom. Not super urgent, but wanted it done same time as the wall outside the bathroom. Given the cavity, im not comfortable doing the crack filling and replastering of that wall unprofessionally.

Not sure which builder to call- havent asked around just yet. When i do, I'll prioritize the floor repair first - perhaps ill do the grunt work and leave the skilled building work to them.

Thank you all for your input and advice. No doubt ill be back in future with more questions and dilemmas - joys of being a homeowner, i guess, LOL.

Please do continue giving suggestions (engineer recommendations/ reputable builder details) if you have.

Apes together strong!
 
When you buy a house in this condition you should fix and renovate 95% of everything yourself, otherwise its going to cost you more than just buying a house in great condition in the first place.
 
NikeXT said:
Doesn’t protect the seller if they purposefully hid defects.
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Didn't know that. Thanks.

I thought that's what the term voets toets meant - that the buyer can't come back afterwards and complain about something.
 
maumau said:
Didn't know that. Thanks.

I thought that's what the term voets toets meant - that the buyer can't come back afterwards and complain about something.
Click to expand...
Yes that’s what it means, but legally such a clause isn’t permissible. It can apply to patent defects but not latent ones the seller knew about but didn’t disclose.

Also, voetstoots :laugh:
 
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