so what is this evolution thing

Necuno

Court Jester
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
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58,567
#1
Evolution doesn't deal with the creation of the universe, it deals with how life forms change through time to become better suited for the environment in which they live, and how that process accounts for the variety of life available on Earth today. Evolution is a fact. Weak features die out, strong ones survive, creatures change and new species emerge.

You're asuming the natural state of the universe is nothing. What if the universe has just always been there, expanding and contracting in big bangs and crunches forever?

But even if it hasn't there are theories about how matter can come into being in a complete vacuum, 0 energy environment. Just because you don't know about them or can't be bothered to read them doesn't mean they don't exist. Most of them are still theoretical, so your god will live in that gap for many people for now, until one of them is widely accepted as the truth - in which case religion will find a new gap. Most of those are also simpler explanations than a magical super being that beams things into existence with its super powers... whose existence you then also have to explain.

All I've noticed (and many others have remarked on this) is that neither you, IJ or Prom understand what evolution is. Honestly, I don't really feel like debating with either of you ultra fanatic religious types any more.
seems that there are few mis understandings out there -

anyone care to enlighten me exactly wtf is evolution or evolutions?

:confused:
 
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Necuno

Court Jester
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#3
suppose theory and then actual evolution taking place - or is that mutation ?

~we are all mutants~

hehe
 

ghoti

Karmic Sangoma
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Jan 17, 2005
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45,673
#4
The theory of evolution is rather broad. A quick look on wiki will enlighten you as to the actual mechanics, but in a nut shell the theory of evolution is an explanation for how and why life changes. It explains how everything is suited for its environment and how it adapts to changes in that environment. It also tries to explain the history of how life changed to become what it is today, and perhaps see where its going in the future.

The more technical description:

Biological evolution is the change in a population's inherited traits from generation to generation. These traits are encoded as genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations and other random changes in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in inheritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. Evolution occurs when these differences become more common or rare in a population. This either happens through natural selection, which is caused by differences in the reproductive value of the traits, or randomly through genetic drift.
 

Praeses

Expert Member
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#6
Mutant: If you have for instance, a bacterium and you induce mutation by UV light or chemicals etc, some gene sequences change -> you form a mutant. (relative to the origional form)

Evolution is a complex theory surrounding the development of life forms over a long period of time. You don't just "evolve" magically. Your kids (genetic ones, not adopted ones :p) will have a mixture of your and your mate's DNA. This causes some variation in your genes which could have good or bad effects (either very small or can be up to very intense - genetic disease). The reason why DNA and the changes in it influence you so much is because your DNA encodes mainly every protein in your cells (it encodes other things too but mostly proteins). Your DNA is a message which describes how your proteins should look. Due to the different shapes of your proteins, you look different.
Where evolution comes in is as follows:
Lets say you're looking at some lions in an environment (I'm not using humans as an example because technology fights natural selection) which might seem the same in an environment, but they have genetic variation, meaning, different forms of the same genes. Some of these genes function better than others. Some hormones might have a stronger effect than others. Some proteins caused some of the lions to have longer and more dense muscles allowing them to run faster. Even though the differences can be small, when the lions go hunt, which ones will most likely catch prey? The ones with the small advantage on their side. The same applies to the prey (a buck for example). The faster buck gets away, survives while the slower one is caught and dies. The faster lion gets more food, survives longer. The faster buck, survives. These two animals with some advantageous genetic makeup will procreate and their offspring will get some of their "good genes". That is natural selection. "The fittest will survive". It is an important part of evolution.

Lets look at a longer period of time. An animal has short legs. It survives on slower (but can still run away) animals which are for instance, small. Over a long period of time (thousands of years) natural selection took place, allowing this animal to generally develop longer legs allowing it to run faster, allowing it to have a higher variety of food sources so chances of these improved animals to die of hunger, is smaller so they will generally have more progeny compared to their less developed ancestors, (which aren't necessarily extinct btw, but they soon will be as they have trouble competing against their more developed counterparts) . This is only an example of one trait of these animals while MANY factors play a role in survival such as metabolism rates, fur density, eye sight etc. Basically anything you can think of.

That's evolution. Development, adaptation to environments, basically things that allow it to survive better.
(does it show that I'm hungry due to all my references of food?)

One thing people for some reason believe, is that for a specific part to evolve, there must be an immediate advantage for having the particular trait. This is not true. The chances are smaller for this trait to increase drastically in number (due to no obvious advantage) but over long periods of time, the particular trait will still undergo some changes (due to mutations) and later they might develop some really minute advantages for an organism which will lead to it being selected for etc etc.
An example of specific traits not having any positive/negative effects while still being present in many animals is for instance my dog. He has these extra toes lacking bones on his back legs. This is supposedly observed now and then in some dog species. The toes hold no advantage since it contains no bone nor tendon. They just "hang around". I'm not saying this is going to evolve into anything, I'm merely using the example to indicate that some "useless" genes are present in many genomes and they don't necessarily just vanish instantly because they have no positive/negative effects.

I hope that you get the idea what evolution is all about. There are many complicated genetic factors which I did not mention. I used simple examples to make it more understandable. I hope I succeeded :p
 

cyghost

Executive Member
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6,394
#9
And your dirt to man can't even be dignified as a hypothesis tbh.

Now, don't bother these nice people here and for the love of humanity stop saying that particle to man (whatever the hell you mean by it) has anything to do with evolution... You only showing your ignorance on the subject and embarrassing yourself.
 
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#10
You're asuming the natural state of the universe is nothing. What if the universe has just always been there, expanding and contracting in big bangs and crunches forever?Pressuposition one in evolution is that the universe always existed from the beginning of time.
This is of course the first "cop-out" in logic , escape door not to explain how the universe came about...
Presupposition two concerns the existence of life.
This is the second "cop-out" in logic , escape door not to explain how life came about...

This is the definitions for theory and hypothesis.

hypothesis [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
an idea or explanation for something that is based on known facts but has not yet been proven.

theory [Show phonetics]
noun [C/U]
something suggested as a reasonable explanation for facts, a condition, or an event, esp. a systematic or scientific explanation.

For evolution to be accepted as a theory after taking two leaps in logic is inconsistent with a reasonable explanation for facts or a condition , or an event esp. a systematic or scientific explanation.

Evolution can be accepted as a hypothesis but the leaps in logic make that disputable.
 

Praeses

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
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4,766
#11
Evolution:

(Biology) change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

(biology) the sequence of events involved in the evolutionary development of a species or taxonomic group of organisms

Biology

Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
www.dictionary.com

There are many facts to back that up and there's lots of logic behind it. If only you studied any of the biological sciences...
 
Joined
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Messages
5,776
#12
www.dictionary.com

There are many facts to back that up and there's lots of logic behind it. If only you studied any of the biological sciences...
Then of course there is also the biosystematic method of baraminology, a young but upcoming method that has grown significantly over the past decade. This method is also used at present to investigate biological creation much to the dismay of evolusionists...
 

Praeses

Expert Member
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#13
Then of course there is also the biosystematic method of baraminology, a young but upcoming method that has grown significantly over the past decade. This method is also used at present to investigate biological creation much to the dismay of evolusionists...
don't derail the thread with non scientific, non evolutionary discussions.
 

TMoose

Expert Member
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
2,148
#16
You're asuming the natural state of the universe is nothing. What if the universe has just always been there, expanding and contracting in big bangs and crunches forever?Pressuposition one in evolution is that the universe always existed from the beginning of time.
This is of course the first "cop-out" in logic , escape door not to explain how the universe came about...
Presupposition two concerns the existence of life.
This is the second "cop-out" in logic , escape door not to explain how life came about...

This is the definitions for theory and hypothesis.

hypothesis [Show phonetics]
noun [C]
an idea or explanation for something that is based on known facts but has not yet been proven.

theory [Show phonetics]
noun [C/U]
something suggested as a reasonable explanation for facts, a condition, or an event, esp. a systematic or scientific explanation.

For evolution to be accepted as a theory after taking two leaps in logic is inconsistent with a reasonable explanation for facts or a condition , or an event esp. a systematic or scientific explanation.

Evolution can be accepted as a hypothesis but the leaps in logic make that disputable.
Please stop posting replies to anything I type. Add me to your ignore list please. It's tiresome having to wade through the irrelevant multi-coloured rubbish you post to get to valid replies.
 
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