I'm currently at about 4 years experience and I still think its bogus. As you said, 95% of the stuff I need for the job, I'll learn in 6 months.
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Software Development - too much focus on prior skills?
- Thread starter Ancalagon
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I'm currently at about 4 years experience and I still think its bogus. As you said, 95% of the stuff I need for the job, I'll learn in 6 months.
I agree with it. If you don't the CV's that come in are just rubbish and you spend hours finding the rare needle in a haystack such as yourself. All you need to do is blag your way through the recruiters, make then know that you **** gold and get an interview. I care nothing for recruiters but if they get you the interview then you can raise your integrity and be truthful.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Proven track record > number of years.
Unfortunately since it usually has to go through HR first, the overhead involved in determining a suitable candidate based on their track record will eat into their lunch and casual chat time. Much easier to just toss it in the bin if it doesn't say 5 years.
Unfortunately since it usually has to go through HR first, the overhead involved in determining a suitable candidate based on their track record will eat into their lunch and casual chat time. Much easier to just toss it in the bin if it doesn't say 5 years.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
I'm going to have to disagree with that. It's part of their job (which they're being paid for) to sift through every CV, irrespective of whether it's rubbish or not.
The number of years is meaningless in any event. I'd much rather have someone who has shown an ability to adapt, rather than have someone who is set in their ways. What happens if you hire the guy with 5 years of Java experience (of which 4 years have been more repetition than acquiring new skills), and then require resources for a .NET contract that has just been secured within one month of hiring him?
This is quite a hot topic that affects all of us who are looking for a new job. The other day, I applied for a job, requiring +2 years of experience with .NET framework.
I only have one year of experience in this field, I have knowledge of development but not with the number of years. I can get the job done.
That lady replied to me saying I am too junior for the post. I really don't understand this bull. Do they need someone with knowledge of how to figure out things and get the job done or someone who had sit on the desk with a title of a "developer" for more years and yet still doesn't know a damn thing! I wonder.
I only have one year of experience in this field, I have knowledge of development but not with the number of years. I can get the job done.
That lady replied to me saying I am too junior for the post. I really don't understand this bull. Do they need someone with knowledge of how to figure out things and get the job done or someone who had sit on the desk with a title of a "developer" for more years and yet still doesn't know a damn thing! I wonder.
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Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
I would say employers are rather looking at 5yrs experience in a primary language where you have used it regularly during that period plus exposure to other languages.
I'm currently seeking other employment (time to move on) and have just about finished my first 5yr Tour Of Duty as a developer. So my CV say 5yrs PHP experience but also exposure to Python, erlang, bash, C++, etc
A good employment agent understands this (I'm working through one) where a bad one that we are all referring to in this thread follows to the letter and has no idea that PHP was not around in the 60's.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
5yrs is the golden rule in any career. When I was in sales in my 20's, I also had that problem. Got my 5yrs behind my belt and I had too many opportunities. Did a career change 5yrs ago at the age of 31 and back to square one. Now that I'm nearly there (5yrs), I'm amazed at the opportunities.
Keep in mind that when being interviewed or reviewed by someone who is 40+, one year is nothing, its a blink where as 5yrs feels like a long weekend
Your at the hardest part where most guys will quite. Its a long hard road ahead but if you can survive it and hit that magic 5yrs, it gets so much easier.
You have the unfortunate problem of not dealing directly with the developer but with someone who doesnt understand development. To her, its the letter of the law.
I just got off the phone with my recruitment agent - a company is keen on me but wants me to do a 3 hour technical test, which starts at certain times in the day, and can only be done during the week. Its actually very offputting, to have such rigorous requirements, such a "process". I know they dont want their time to be wasted, but now they are wasting my time. With the size of the company (its medium sized), I'm not even sure I want to work there.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
I refuse to do those as they do not test your real ability. Its all a w@@nk to impress the boss. I told my agent that I will not work for a corporate as they focus too much on skillets on paper and ignore the individual and their talent.
Takes longer to find work but I will find an environment I'm going to be happier with.
I'm seriously thinking about refusing. Any company that requires you to do that, upfront, before you even meet with the guys, in my opinion is usually not worth it. I dont mind a technical test, but introduce yourselves first and let me see what you are all about.
I remember once going to an interview where they were doing all sorts of aptitude tests. One test was called the "C Test". Everyone knew about it, and I thought it was some psychology aptitude test rubbish that they always do (you know, all that problem solving normal ****).....turned out it was an actual C programming language test....and everyone except me had hit a fat study for it. Still got offered the job though, turned it down. W@nkers!
I can understand a technical test and I wouldn't be worried about it, they're normally lame. There are some absolutely terrible developers out there, they need to sift through them. Developers are expensive...especially if they come from a recruitement agency. Thats an extra 12%+ lump sum they have to pay for you! They gotta make sure you're worth it.
EDIT: To add to this, I worked for an amazing company that did technical testing during interviews. Except they surprised candidates with it in the interview. I loved it at the company. So dont let it put you off, man up and just do it. Nothing to lose.
I can understand a technical test and I wouldn't be worried about it, they're normally lame. There are some absolutely terrible developers out there, they need to sift through them. Developers are expensive...especially if they come from a recruitement agency. Thats an extra 12%+ lump sum they have to pay for you! They gotta make sure you're worth it.
EDIT: To add to this, I worked for an amazing company that did technical testing during interviews. Except they surprised candidates with it in the interview. I loved it at the company. So dont let it put you off, man up and just do it. Nothing to lose.
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Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Do it.
With the amount of jobs out there at the moment, its a picking field for us job seekers as long as your not in a rush. I've set myself a target of 3mths to move on, even my bosses told me to take my time and 100% make sure I move onto something I'm going to love.
I dont mind technical tests at all. I do well at them usually.
But I do mind them if I havent even met the guys or gone for an interview yet. That pisses me off. If you take my CV seriously, then have the decency to introduce yourselves.
But I do mind them if I havent even met the guys or gone for an interview yet. That pisses me off. If you take my CV seriously, then have the decency to introduce yourselves.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Agree here but it also says a lot about the work environment. I'm 36 and have enough experience of working environments and interviews to judge the environment on the first few minutes with the prospective employer.
Job satisfaction is my primary goal, salary is a distant second
It says negative things about the work environment if you ask me. I'm not a person, I'm a resource, to them. I dont like that.
Also remember the company has to go via the recruitment agency to talk to you...so you can't blame them. They're interested, they're warning you about a test, hopefully you can do both in one sitting - not come for an interview one day, then they tune you about a test, and you come back another day to do it. I'd be stoked if I was you.
ufis
Banned for trolling & disrupting the forum
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Many companies, and almost all agencies, only see the company as having to approve of the prospective employee. They tend to forget that I must also approve of the company. It is a 2 way interview process.
I have declined many posts simply because they were unable/unwilling to tell me what I will be doing while working there.
As for the technical test (and my payslip), I will complete/provide that after we have had a chat and we find that we like each other.
I have declined many posts simply because they were unable/unwilling to tell me what I will be doing while working there.
As for the technical test (and my payslip), I will complete/provide that after we have had a chat and we find that we like each other.
I cant, thats the thing. its an online only test that starts at either 9 or 1, weekdays only. Ie, during work hours. And its 3 hours long. And they only meet you if you pass.
Thats what I'm getting at. I dont mind a test, but let me meet you guys first.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
100%
Fair enough, that sucks. Must be a massive company - or dont you even know, haha?