Solar for business

[juBa]

Howzit guys,

Just want to find out from you smart people before I go to a solar company and get ripped off.

I’m looking at getting backup power for a business and it’ll need a 60-80KvA generator to fully run, but with the prices of diesel atm going into winter I don’t think it’ll be viable.

So looking at the solar option, can you guys give me advise on what system would be best to cover - comparable to a 60-80KvA gene.

I’ve had one quote already as below

Inverter 3 phase

Inverter 50kw Deye R230700
Battery freedom 1 R408800
Ac DB R6500
Dc Fuse box 2500
50mm cable R5000
Labour R15500

Total R 669 000

Will the 50kw inverter be sufficient? And I’m assuming it’s the freedom won 60/48

Also do you know any reputable solar installers in Pretoria I can contact?

Thanks a mill!

 

[Fcon_Vpro]

Howzit guys,

Just want to find out from you smart people before I go to a solar company and get ripped off.

I’m looking at getting backup power for a business and it’ll need a 60-80KvA generator to fully run, but with the prices of diesel atm going into winter I don’t think it’ll be viable.

So looking at the solar option, can you guys give me advise on what system would be best to cover - comparable to a 60-80KvA gene.

I’ve had one quote already as below

Inverter 3 phase

Inverter 50kw Deye R230700
Battery freedom 1 R408800
Ac DB R6500
Dc Fuse box 2500
50mm cable R5000
Labour R15500

Total R 669 000

Will the 50kw inverter be sufficient? And I’m assuming it’s the freedom won 60/48

Also do you know any reputable solar installers in Pretoria I can contact?

Thanks a mill!

How do you know you need a 60-80kva generator?

But lets say its accurate that your generator needed is 60-80kva, then you can only use about 80% of that so you need 45-60kva inverting ability.
Your battery is 48kwh depth of discharge, so basically your business will run for 1 hour during loadshedding and then no more power until it can charge again.

The inverter might be sufficient if you limit to 50kw, but your battery is not sufficient to last 2-4 hours of loadshedding.

 

[juBa]

How do you know you need a 60-80kva generator?

But lets say its accurate that your generator needed is 60-80kva, then you can only use about 80% of that so you need 45-60kva inverting ability.
Your battery is 48kwh depth of discharge, so basically your business will run for 1 hour during loadshedding and then no more power until it can charge again.

The inverter might be sufficient if you limit to 50kw, but your battery is not sufficient to last 2-4 hours of loadshedding.

An electrician came in and tested the readings and told us that 60-80kva would be more than enough.

But he’s going to put his machines in the db box over the weekend to test the pull over 48 hours so we can get a clearer imagine of what’s needed. It def doesn’t draw the full 50kwh, his device showed 11.9amps per phase (3 phase) when he spot checked it. I don’t know anything about electricity or conversion and all that so it might sound very wrong. Basically I just understand that his machines will tell us the pull over 48 hours and then we see from there what size battery/ inverter etc we will need.

Does that sound right? If so, say 11.9 amps per phase is the constant that’s being pulled when in full operation, how many kwh does that work to or cant we work it out that way? And it that’s all correct, the above system, how long would that freedom won 60/48 last

 

[soulie]

if youre pulling 12 amps per phase and you have some medium size motors your startup current will be around 45 amps per phase depending on load .thats going to give you at least 10kw per phase with very little headroom .just from motor startups .more than 1 motor starting will push it up dramatically .

 

[Fcon_Vpro]

An electrician came in and tested the readings and told us that 60-80kva would be more than enough.

But he’s going to put his machines in the db box over the weekend to test the pull over 48 hours so we can get a clearer imagine of what’s needed. It def doesn’t draw the full 50kwh, his device showed 11.9amps per phase (3 phase) when he spot checked it. I don’t know anything about electricity or conversion and all that so it might sound very wrong. Basically I just understand that his machines will tell us the pull over 48 hours and then we see from there what size battery/ inverter etc we will need.

Does that sound right? If so, say 11.9 amps per phase is the constant that’s being pulled when in full operation, how many kwh does that work to or cant we work it out that way? And it that’s all correct, the above system, how long would that freedom won 60/48 last

Difficult to say because I'm not sure how your phases are connected.
3 phase can carry up to 400v depending on how the phases are being used ie motor applications or just straight connections

So for simplicity lets assume the phases are being used individually:
11.9a x 230v = 2737w x 3phases= 8211w or 8.2kw.
The battery would last 48kwh/8.2kw which is just shy of 6 hours.
He could parallel multiple cheaper batteries to get it cheaper than using the freedom won.

My guess is the kva generator rating he gave is probably just because it's higher than the 56kva that 3phase is rated for by the municipality(again just an assumption because I don't know who is supplying you)
So taking 20% off of the generator kva so that the generator isnt overloaded gets to that 56ish mark.
Which also means that he just chose the 50kw inverter because that would support close to the max load that your 3phase connection can do.
In other words it seems lazy what he has recommended because its just around the maximum your electricity can get. But he might have been asked to provide something that will be able to provide max power and then he wasn't lazy.

I'm assuming he will leave ct clamps over the 48 hours which will hopefully record the power usage and peaks. And then based on that you can potentially get a smaller inverter but I don't think you will get away from the battery size.

 

[soulie]

Best advice i can give you, from an IE is, if your sparky says you need....... Go with his advice .if you think you need x, double it,i run a workshop as well, just my main compressor starts at 45 amp 3 phase. Motors dont like invertors they suck them dry., if battery go big or go home. Your peak or lrc is going to be your starting point not running amps, that means zilch.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Howzit guys,

Just want to find out from you smart people before I go to a solar company and get ripped off.

I’m looking at getting backup power for a business and it’ll need a 60-80KvA generator to fully run, but with the prices of diesel atm going into winter I don’t think it’ll be viable.

So looking at the solar option, can you guys give me advise on what system would be best to cover - comparable to a 60-80KvA gene.

I’ve had one quote already as below

Inverter 3 phase

Inverter 50kw Deye R230700
Battery freedom 1 R408800
Ac DB R6500
Dc Fuse box 2500
50mm cable R5000
Labour R15500

Total R 669 000

Will the 50kw inverter be sufficient? And I’m assuming it’s the freedom won 60/48

Also do you know any reputable solar installers in Pretoria I can contact?

Thanks a mill!

Where's the panels in that quote? Seems to just be an inverter and battery. You're looking at about 100 x 535w panels for 53 kWp which would be another R350k or so...

 

[soulie]

Where's the panels in that quote? Seems to just be an inverter and battery. You're looking at about 100 x 535w panels for 53 kWp which would be another R350k or so...

that may be why he is also looking for a solar installer for the panells .inverter install and solar install are 2 different things .

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

We have an 80KVA 3 phase diesel genny at work that kicks in automatically when loadshedding starts
We use 16 air cons
Lots of lights
Computers etc
Consumption is 8 litres per hour

 

[P924]

He could parallel multiple cheaper batteries to get it cheaper than using the freedom won.

This is a high-voltage system, it does not work with 48V batteries and requires at minimum a 160V battery (but that does not get you close to the rated power). So that is not an option, I would stick with the FW.

 

[soulie]

We have an 80KVA 3 phase diesel genny at work that kicks in automatically when loadshedding starts
We use 16 air cons
Lots of lights
Computers etc
Consumption is 8 litres per hour

you cant beat a big diesel ,and for home use as well the little 7.5kw daihatsu are brilliant .

 

[soulie]

This is a high-voltage system, it does not work with 48V batteries and requires at minimum a 160V battery (but that does not get you close to the rated power). So that is not an option, I would stick with the FW.

in an industrial environment most of my customers have gone the 400v inverter route .thats high voltage dc sh7t that

 

[soulie]

i can see an 80kw system coming on the horizon .my other customer has ordered one on wheels , battery with built in inverter ,pics look impressive .

 

[juBa]

Difficult to say because I'm not sure how your phases are connected.
3 phase can carry up to 400v depending on how the phases are being used ie motor applications or just straight connections

So for simplicity lets assume the phases are being used individually:
11.9a x 230v = 2737w x 3phases= 8211w or 8.2kw.
The battery would last 48kwh/8.2kw which is just shy of 6 hours.
He could parallel multiple cheaper batteries to get it cheaper than using the freedom won.

My guess is the kva generator rating he gave is probably just because it's higher than the 56kva that 3phase is rated for by the municipality(again just an assumption because I don't know who is supplying you)
So taking 20% off of the generator kva so that the generator isnt overloaded gets to that 56ish mark.
Which also means that he just chose the 50kw inverter because that would support close to the max load that your 3phase connection can do.
In other words it seems lazy what he has recommended because its just around the maximum your electricity can get. But he might have been asked to provide something that will be able to provide max power and then he wasn't lazy.

I'm assuming he will leave ct clamps over the 48 hours which will hopefully record the power usage and peaks. And then based on that you can potentially get a smaller inverter but I don't think you will get away from the battery size.

Thanks everyone for your advice and knowledge. This is just for batteries and an inverter.

The store is a not industrial, it’s for a franchise Qsr/Cdr restaurant. So we’re talking 3 ice cream machines, cappuccino machine, one walk in fridge, one walk in freezer, one electrical chip fryer and stove top, a few microwaves, a few upright fridges and then obv the lights etc.

Also there’s no space for solar panels so we’re just looking for something to cover us for around 6 hours of load shedding with a short charge time inbetween. I know someone mentioned super capacitor batteries but the cost vs lithium is abit to high at the moment.

We’ve got generators at other locations, paying around R2000 diesel a day, which is around R60k pm. Besides the excessive price for diesel, it’s services and I promise you, those things only get stuck on weekends when no one is able to come out to fault find. Hence why we’re looking at batteries and an inverter with a higher set up fee but potentially saving money over a longer time with diesel and maintenance and less hassle overall.

The electrician has installed his clamps in the store to test the usage over 48 hours. Taking the above into consideration, would anyone change anything from the quote or would that still be dependent on the usage info? And are there any reputable solar installers/ companies that you would recommend in Pretoria?

 

[soulie]

Thanks everyone for your advice and knowledge. This is just for batteries and an inverter.

The store is a not industrial, it’s for a franchise Qsr/Cdr restaurant. So we’re talking 3 ice cream machines, cappuccino machine, one walk in fridge, one walk in freezer, one electrical chip fryer and stove top, a few microwaves, a few upright fridges and then obv the lights etc.

Also there’s no space for solar panels so we’re just looking for something to cover us for around 6 hours of load shedding with a short charge time inbetween. I know someone mentioned super capacitor batteries but the cost vs lithium is abit to high at the moment.

We’ve got generators at other locations, paying around R2000 diesel a day, which is around R60k pm. Besides the excessive price for diesel, it’s services and I promise you, those things only get stuck on weekends when no one is able to come out to fault find. Hence why we’re looking at batteries and an inverter with a higher set up fee but potentially saving money over a longer time with diesel and maintenance and less hassle overall.

The electrician has installed his clamps in the store to test the usage over 48 hours. Taking the above into consideration, would anyone change anything from the quote or would that still be dependent on the usage info? And are there any reputable solar installers/ companies that you would recommend in Pretoria?

80 kw battery system minimum , 6 hours damn , with a lot of heavy start up little machines and that kickass fridge which i presume is fan chilled .give your sparkie a hug hes gonna need it , not an easy task .

 

[soulie]

p.please post the solution .

 

[Ojcd45]

Hexing SA High Voltage 3 phase 30kW Balance Power with 90kWh High Voltage Lithium Battery

This installation was carried out at the OEM factory to run their large Meter factory production. The factory has a power requirement of +90kW of energy 3 phase. HexingSA together with their renewable energy subsidiary Livoltek will power the entire production line and power requirements with at ...

powerforum.co.za

Maybe go with something like that, modular, scaleable. Although :

Contact Steve87 from powerforum who can do the advising, and install. In jhb as well. Well known and trusted installer.

Home Page

Renewable energy solar lithium battery

loadfed.co.za

LoadFed Solar - R and D Energy (Pty) Ltd
064 044 2640

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Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[juBa]

p.please post the solution .

Will do as soon as I can find someone willing to come out and give comparative quotes these guys are really busy at the moment with all the ls

 

[juBa]

So the energy monitor has been connected for a few days, it averages around 35kwh over the three phases most of the day but it does peak to 57kwh sometimes when certain machines are used at the same time.

Does that mean the 50kw Deye inverter won’t be enough?

If so, would this be sufficient?

110KW CANADIAN SOLAR 3-PHASE INVERTER

Are you interested in purchasing a CANADIAN SOLAR Grid-tied inverter ? Solarway Suppliers have the best solutions for you.

www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za

With a 60/48 freedom won (mainly because I can add one if necessary - in the future)

 

[FlashSA]

Howzit guys,

Just want to find out from you smart people before I go to a solar company and get ripped off.

I’m looking at getting backup power for a business and it’ll need a 60-80KvA generator to fully run, but with the prices of diesel atm going into winter I don’t think it’ll be viable.

So looking at the solar option, can you guys give me advise on what system would be best to cover - comparable to a 60-80KvA gene.

I’ve had one quote already as below

Inverter 3 phase

Inverter 50kw Deye R230700
Battery freedom 1 R408800
Ac DB R6500
Dc Fuse box 2500
50mm cable R5000
Labour R15500

Total R 669 000

Will the 50kw inverter be sufficient? And I’m assuming it’s the freedom won 60/48

Also do you know any reputable solar installers in Pretoria I can contact?

Thanks a mill!

I went solar at home, 60KVA diesel genset at the office/workshop. Here's why:

60KVA FAW "silent" genset was R185k. Electrical installation another R30k - 3 phase, 75amps per phase from the genset.

It runs 2 compressors, multiple cut off saws, all workshop lights, whole office including 96 000BTU of aircons.

It uses, on average, R110 of diesel per hour of loadshedding run time (at the current pump price, so about 4 litres per hour). This is less than the 2 petrol generators on wheels we used to run and they wouldn't run aircons.

If we had gone full solar instead, the bill would probably be closer to a million or more. The difference is A LOT of diesel over many many years and the initial outlay is a fraction of the solar.

Not included is servicing of the genset every 250hours.

Not thought about is for the solar option, if you have a rainy day or 2 and stage 6-8 loadshedding, the batteries are never going to cope. The genset will just purr along.