Steps to fix constant drops?

[TwinDucT]

Hey guys,
I know there's been at least a million of these posts. But need some help here as I'm not sure what's going on.

So before I continue, here's my adsl stats.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4096 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 55 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 7 db 12 db

And here's it again after 2 seconds

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4096 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 55 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 9 db 12 db

And after another two seconds

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4096 kbps 512 kbps
Line Attenuation 55 db 15.5 db
Noise Margin 2 db 12 db

And after another two seconds

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 0 kbps 0 kbps
Line Attenuation 0 db 0 db
Noise Margin 24376616 db 12 db

Now for some background. Techie installed the line, did a **** job (Like literally had the adsl line hang from the telephone pole to the garage then from there to a wall and from the wall to the house. And by hang I mean wing blows and the cable flys around .. I mean sagging hang.

So what can I do to improve my noise margin? What steps should I take to get my noise margin stable?

 

[Lycanthrope]

So what can I do to improve my noise margin? What steps should I take to get my noise margin stable?

By the sound of it, call in another techie and have him make sure that everything is connected properly and also to test the line afterwards. There's not much else you can do, I don't think.

 

[TwinDucT]

Will try that. For some reason every time I get a techie out, they say I need to get my line reinstalled. I query for a line relocation/ Installation. Then a techie comes out to test the line .. cycle of telkom :\

Would going down to 3mb have any diverse effects?

 

[hambone]

Tell them the line looks like a dogs breakfast and they must come fix it, and if that doesn't work dismantle the line and blame high winds. And, very possibly changing to a slower profile would assist tremendously, though its not ideal.

 

[TwinDucT]

very possibly changing to a slower profile would assist tremendously

Granted it wont be ideal, but I can barely keep up any connection at this stage. If switching to 3mb = stable connection I would do it in a heartbeat!
Now that I think about it. What would be the 'ideal' Line att & Noise for 4mb .. or even 3mb?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Will try that. For some reason every time I get a techie out, they say I need to get my line reinstalled. I query for a line relocation/ Installation. Then a techie comes out to test the line .. cycle of telkom :\

Would going down to 3mb have any diverse effects?

I don't think that dropping your profile would help matters much--it will just fix one problem and create another (specifically you'll forfeit any line upgrades in the future), also, you'll still have a ****ed line which might not drop as frequently, but I'm 100% certain it will still drop.

I agree with hambone regarding the dog's breakfast bit and if that fails... well, I won't say dismantle because you never know what might happen...

My suggestion is tell Telkom that you have been advised (doesn't matter who advised you) that your line needs to be replaced because it was shoddily installed. Put your foot down on this matter--no testing and then leaving--REPLACE THE LINE. Then have them test it after and make sure that the line is installed to your satisfaction. If it still gives problems then you know that the problem is further down, but at least your side is in the clear--then it's up to Telkom to find the fault and fix it

 

[Lycanthrope]

Granted it wont be ideal, but I can barely keep up any connection at this stage. If switching to 3mb = stable connection I would do it in a heartbeat!
Now that I think about it. What would be the 'ideal' Line att & Noise for 4mb .. or even 3mb?

If your attenuation and SNR jumps around then nothing will be ideal. But, the lower your attenuation and your SNR Margin the better (bearing in mind that the higher your SNR itself the better).

There are people with attenuation of around 60dB with stable connections. I'd say whatever works for you works. However, the higher your attenuation, the further you are from the exchange and the further you are from the exchange the lower your synch speed will need to go to be stable. All in all, it's your SNR/Noise Margin that you need to keep an eye on.

I noticed: Noise Margin 24376616 db 12 db

Since the first part is downstream that can only mean that something isn't connecting properly between you and, at the very least, your pole (this is just a guess since it's the only moving part I can think of). So the problem is definitely where and how your line was installed... Specifically the wobbly loose wire outside

Again, that's just my guess, but I'd be willing to bet on it.

Out of curiosity though (just to be on the safe side) you've unplugged all fax machines, phones, etc from any and all sockets in the house and just had the router going to test if the same problem occurs?

 

[Pada]

I think you should try to reduce the sync rate from 4Mbps to 2Mbps and see if your connection remains stable at the lower rates. Currently your Line Attenuation is slightly too high for a stable 4Mbps connection.

I would prefer to have a stable connection over having a fast and unreliable connection - like the 20Mbps Wireless connection that I now have would often be completely offline for a couple of minutes

 

[AnRkey]

what you need to do

Stop listening to everyone else and do this...

1: phone telkom and report a line fault. Insist on getting a ref number. (Remember, no ref number, no use phoning them)

2: Make sure the telkom techie does an intermittent fault test as well as a BERT test. (Bit Error Rate Test).

3: Do not close the fault until you are sure it;s sorted.

But before all that, make sure you try two other routers.

If you want a nice test, try somthing called Routerstats and a netgear dg834 router. With those two you can do your own BERT test.

BTW: this is a simple line fault if your router is not fuct.

R

 

[Hectic]

I agree with AnRkey, but I would pull the line down before I phone. Give them a reason to do a better job.

 

[AnRkey]

WTF?!

I agree with AnRkey, but I would pull the line down before I phone. Give them a reason to do a better job.

Wait a sec boet... :wtf: You can't go around destroying property of Telkom. That's just counter productive and you can quite simply GO TO JAIL!!!

Just stop and think before giving "advise" like that in an open forum!

Ok so here is the correct way to get the problem sorted if they don't fix it for you.

Telkom can't close the case unless you are happy. If they do then there is a procedure that has been put in place to make sure that you can use the ref number to complain. I have and continue to do this and it works fine. Also I do this in pretty much all areas too, not just ADSL. Technicians have managers and they must sort them out when they do bad work. Besides, it should not get to that if you report the problem correctly and do all your testing before hand. Just use logic!

some notes:
1: Get the ref number
2: make sure you always complain in black and white
3: only comlain when it's needed. Complaining for fun is nasty and stupid and wastes time.
4: be polite and friendly and you will get much more sorted, give them a reason to want to help you and you far better off than pissing them off.
5: Not doing things by the book will take you waaaaay longer! Many have tried it that way.

See!? Now that's much simpler. Just use what's there to get the job done and you don't end up in jail.

Later,

R

 

[Lycanthrope]

Telkom can't close the case unless you are happy.

Funny story. In my old apartment when I first got DSL installed, there was a problem between the DSLAM and myself. Specifically, the line speed (4mb) would drop to less than a 384 line. This would happen sporadically and was the same regardless of ISP. I spent three months complaining. I had at least 15 reference numbers and the same 5 techies would come out each time, say, "Yes, there's definitely something up with the DSLAM" after trying to change ports, etc and all resulting in the same problem and each and every single time after a techie was over, I'd get that text saying, "Do not reply to this text if your fault is fixed" and each time I'd reply and a day later the fault would be closed.

I'd bring it up with the next consultant when reporting the fault again and they'd say, "Oh, I can see here that they said that the fault was fixed. It probably just recurred. We'll send another techie through." And that was the rinse and repeat of it all.

They do close faults that haven't been fixed, regardless of your satisfaction. I remember once a guy even called me before closing the fault asking if it's been resolved and I said, "No, it hasn't." About 10 minutes after that call I got a text saying, "Your fault has now been closed."

I'm sorry, but you're powerless with Telkom unless they WANT to help you. However, I fully agree with being as friendly and polite as possible. Sometimes though, friendly gets your rewarded with a smart-mouthed moron with a chip on his shoulder. Then tempers flare.

Anyway, the funny part of this story: after three months that I had the line I cancelled it--no way was I paying R800-odd for 384 speeds. Then, another three months after cancelling I decided I like my DSL too much and I'll just have to put up with it. When it was reinstalled--everything was perfect.

Moral of the story? If everything else fails, cancel and start from scratch

 

[AnRkey]

Funny story. In my old apartment when I first got DSL installed, there was a problem between the DSLAM and myself. Specifically, the line speed (4mb) would drop to less than a 384 line. This would happen sporadically and was the same regardless of ISP. I spent three months complaining. I had at least 15 reference numbers and the same 5 techies would come out each time, say, "Yes, there's definitely something up with the DSLAM" after trying to change ports, etc and all resulting in the same problem and each and every single time after a techie was over, I'd get that text saying, "Do not reply to this text if your fault is fixed" and each time I'd reply and a day later the fault would be closed.

I'd bring it up with the next consultant when reporting the fault again and they'd say, "Oh, I can see here that they said that the fault was fixed. It probably just recurred. We'll send another techie through." And that was the rinse and repeat of it all.

They do close faults that haven't been fixed, regardless of your satisfaction. I remember once a guy even called me before closing the fault asking if it's been resolved and I said, "No, it hasn't." About 10 minutes after that call I got a text saying, "Your fault has now been closed."

I'm sorry, but you're powerless with Telkom unless they WANT to help you. However, I fully agree with being as friendly and polite as possible. Sometimes though, friendly gets your rewarded with a smart-mouthed moron with a chip on his shoulder. Then tempers flare.

Anyway, the funny part of this story: after three months that I had the line I cancelled it--no way was I paying R800-odd for 384 speeds. Then, another three months after cancelling I decided I like my DSL too much and I'll just have to put up with it. When it was reinstalled--everything was perfect.

Moral of the story? If everything else fails, cancel and start from scratch

A simple BERT test would have shown you that the line was borked. It's that, the router or both.

It's that simple.

Follow my procedure and then tell me it does not work.

Nuf now,

R

PS: Most of my day is spent making sure my VPNs run well. So yes, I know what I am talking about or I would be out of business.

 

[Lycanthrope]

A simple BERT test would have shown you that the line was borked. It's that, the router or both.

It's that simple.

Follow my procedure and then tell me it does not work.

Nuf now,

R

PS: Most of my day is spent making sure my VPNs run well. So yes, I know what I am talking about or I would be out of business.

Same router that I'm using even now (DG384GT) with the joys of Routerstats. Line synched fine, SNR and ATT were perfect. The techies did the exact same thing and as I said, came to the conclusion that it was the DSLAM. And if you take into consideration that it was the exact same apartment with the exact same line to the exact same DSLAM (The Santam DSLAM just across the road).. uh... sure. Your procedure works like a charm

The point is simple--if Telkom don't want to fix it, they won't. And I can tell you from the above experience that you can have all the reference numbers in the world, if they don't want to fix it (for whatever reason) then they will close the fault and mark it as "resolved" even when it isn't.

You can either accept this as truth and shrug it off as just another Telkom complaint, or you can take it as an insult to your honour, integrity and your t0tally p3rf3ct "procedure." The choice is ultimately yours. I've just told you what my experience was, there's nothing more to it.

 

[AnRkey]

If they switch you to a new port on the DSLAM and it's not fixed, then move on because it's not that.

Any good ISP should be able to tell you your DSLAM port number. If that has not changed then someone is lying to you if they are telling you they changed ports. Each DSLAM port has to have a unique port number, end of.

This is why my aproach says to use "black and white" to complain as well. Once they commit to saying that it's the port that was changed and you can prove otherwise... well then you have them lying and with proof too. The complaints department can move far more quickly to sort it out then.

And if it's not the port then it's line or modem... beyond the DSLAM I promise you everything else is working or would be working soon because far more people are effected when things break there.

So again, follow my procedure and you will get sorted. It's simple logic and easy to get people in to hot water when they lie. With this method of thinking and working you can't go wrong.

I'm not being funny or anything but I reckon this thread is solved. Stop adding crap to it now.

 

[Yuu]

Also take pictures of the condition of the line (hanging). Email it to the Higher Ups, if someone has it post it for TwinDucT

If you guys saw that RvD thread and the progress that was made when those around you (neighbours etc) get together, something can get done. Is anyone else in your area having a problem like you? Find out as much as you can.

I like AnRkey's tips, will be trying those out, thank you Sir.

Keep us posted.