'Stop bitching or get out!'

[ignacio]

Sure, thats a good soluition for the future but we need a solution now, not in a generation or two's time.

If you can work out a way to educate and lift blacks out of poverty now, then you would have a solution now.

 

[neio]

Here's the real kicker.

How often do you say a kind word or crack a joke with somebody who works for you, either the cleaning lady or the security guy who mans the gate at your office or even your home, do you treat them with respect or do you dismiss their contribution to your life. You may pay their salary but treating other people with respect starts with your own attitude.

(Disclaimer, this post is not directed at anybody but rather an attempt to make people introspective regarding their attitude to other people)

 

[icyrus]

If you can work out a way to educate and lift blacks out of poverty now, then you would have a solution now.

There is poverty in many place in the world. Some place with much worse poverty than here and yet the crime levels here are higher. Excuse me for being tired of people saying poverty is the only cause of the crime we experience here.

 

[Vio]

This is just another example of african's in ability to to run propper goverment and when people point and saiz there is a problem they get upset and make irresponsible comments.

 

[lucifir]

I have to say ... this is ridiculous .... every SA citizen has a right to voice their opinions .... and as politicians ... they are representing the people .... and in this case .... they certainly more than have the right to complain ..... its their job .... to engage in discussions with the ministers to try and resolve the problems of the country .... but when the minister basically says that you should just toe the line or get out .... then we are in a very sorry state ... this is supposed to be a democracy .... but now I can understand why all the media reports are saying that we are heading towards a dictatorship ....
I do not think that this minister deserves to be in office .... would be nice for this story to get loads more publicity .... mayb then the pres with sack his a$$
P.S. this is exactly why telkom are the way they r ..... "toe the line or leave" .... they get it from the gov .... so why change.... by supporting this fool ... u r indirectly supporting telskum .... so don't ever complain about them on this forum again .... you should b one of those ppl that are glad to have the privilidge of payine through ur a$$

 

[Vio]

The problem is that bitching and complaining ALL the time achieves absolutely nothing in the long run except that the other party will simply ignore you after a while.

I am sure the DA get's good press out of it and maybe can increase their share of the vote by 1% next time around but the govt ignores and labels them
as people not worth listening to.

They might have some positive contribution to make but they utterly spoil it in the manner which they approach these things.

I disagree the DA tends to point allot sure but its in the intrest of the public that these issues be in the public eye ALL the time. My reasons for this is it puts presure on goverment to pull up their socks. They are the "opposition" after all and as such act like it.

 

[reech]

There is poverty in many place in the world. Some place with much worse poverty than here and yet the crime levels here are higher. Excuse me for being tired of people saying poverty is the only cause of the crime we experience here.

Agreed!! I have spent a long time in India/asia - and the masses there suffer truly grinding poverty - yet there is little violent crime. A very peaceful place.

Maybe their attitude has something to do with hindu belief system (ie if you're bottom of the pile you can only be reborn upwards)/ unwilling to damage their karma.

 

[telkomsuig]

Well the ministers sentiments are very well but I think SA goverment should then negotiate the right of return of white setlers to our countries of origin.

 

[Nod]

Agreed!! I have spent a long time in India/asia - and the masses there suffer truly grinding poverty - yet there is little violent crime. A very peaceful place.

Maybe the peace over there have more to do with moral values and culture.

 

[kingmonty]

It is the manner in which the DA and FF Plus which represents white interests does it that annoys so many people ... instead of whinging and pointing fingers and blaming the govt why not offer concrete suggestions to HELP the govt or police to combat crime ???.

I guess it is easier to pontificate when the problem is not yours.

Oh tibby, every single week in Parliament several suggestions get offered to help eradicate crime, and none of these suggestions are ever considered, because they generally come from opposition members.

 

[pupa]

Maybe the peace over there have more to do with moral values and culture.

Zuma is a prime example of it, Tibby and the others refuse to see. Its easier to blame Apartheid and call on Afrikaans surnames with disdain to support your futile argument or justify your incompetence. That's a tactic well employed by the ANC to hold onto power, and not having to admit failure. Therefore the high incidence of Violent crimes in the country! The GVT fuels the fire with an hidden agenda IMHO!

 

[kingmonty]

If only it was limited to this forum and the Intarnet then I could just tune it out like I already do but I have to live and work amongst you in the real world (tm) .

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

 

[supersunbird]

It is the manner in which the DA and FF Plus which represents white interests does it that annoys so many people ... instead of whinging and pointing fingers and blaming the govt why not offer concrete suggestions to HELP the govt or police to combat crime ???.

I guess it is easier to pontificate when the problem is not yours.

Is the DA or FF Plus in power? Is it their responsibility? THey have offered concrete suggestions: spent the money in policing correctly, build more prisons, be more proactive, root out corruption.

But I guess you are satisfied with a slow, inefficient inconsistent police force...

And your speeding ass is also happy that the Metro cops are so inefficient...

 

[kingmonty]

That is being done ... salaries of the lowest ranks have improved and more resources have been allocated to the SAPS ... you might notice that cops don't drive those ugly yellow bakkies anymore but late model Golf's and Corolla's.

In the past the SAPS have never been about fighting crime but rather as a tool of the state to suppress people ... to overcome this culture without drastic disruptive changes (such as firing the whole bloody lot) have been a rather difficult and still ongoing process.

There's more crime today than there was 12 years ago. There's more rapes of children today in South Africa than anywhere else in the history of the World. There's more hijackings and armed residential robberies in South Africa than anywhere in the world. I fail to see what late model golfs and corollas has done to make an impact on crime.

Look at how many high profile cases (Zuma - crime scene interview) have been botched because of basic detective skills that are missing.

Which is a very good indicator of incompetence in the Police service. The same thing was also to blame in the Laundry Murders case.

 

[kingmonty]

The problem is that bitching and complaining ALL the time achieves absolutely nothing in the long run except that the other party will simply ignore you after a while.

I am sure the DA get's good press out of it and maybe can increase their share of the vote by 1% next time around but the govt ignores and labels them
as people not worth listening to.

They might have some positive contribution to make but they utterly spoil it in the manner which they approach these things.

In the mean time, the ANC is doing everything in its power to get Zille out of power.

 

[kingmonty]

It al comes back to being morally responsible, teach the kids morals and the shame of doing bad things and you will see an improvement, I wonder what ever happened to the Ubuntu movement, the ideals were high but I think it could have worked. Obviously Charlie is refering to the spirit of Ubuntu with his comments, albeit not very clearly. The premise of people being good neighbours is very entrenched in the townships and I think that spirit would not be out of place in the rest of South Africa.

No. How do you teach kids to be moral when they're living in an immoral society?

 

[kingmonty]

It all depends on which unit is assigned to the case ... high profile crimes get the best and they are simply more skilled than the ordinary case overloaded detectives at police stations.

Which is once again an indication of where the government's priorities lie: with the VIP's, rich and famous. Here's a little fact that few people know: There are twice as many posts allocated to the SAPS unit that provides protection to a handful of VIPs in South Africa as there are to the unit that protects South African women and children from abuse.

 

[pupa]

There's more crime today than there was 12 years ago. There's more rapes of children today in South Africa than anywhere else in the history of the World. There's more hijackings and armed residential robberies in South Africa than anywhere in the world. I fail to see what late model golfs and corollas has done to make an impact on crime.

Which is a very good indicator of incompetence in the Police service. The same thing was also to blame in the Laundry Murders case.

Again a cultural issue based on false beliefs!

 

[kingmonty]

Here's the real kicker.

How often do you say a kind word or crack a joke with somebody who works for you, either the cleaning lady or the security guy who mans the gate at your office or even your home, do you treat them with respect or do you dismiss their contribution to your life. You may pay their salary but treating other people with respect starts with your own attitude.

(Disclaimer, this post is not directed at anybody but rather an attempt to make people introspective regarding their attitude to other people)

You make an interesting point. I always talk to everyone exactly the same way, irrespective of Race. Few things irk me more than someone talking to a black person as if he/she is retarded.

 

[kingmonty]

There is poverty in many place in the world. Some place with much worse poverty than here and yet the crime levels here are higher. Excuse me for being tired of people saying poverty is the only cause of the crime we experience here.

Our level of crime is actually higher than Iraq. And Iraq is in the midst of a war.