Suggestions for Sub-Zero Overclock

[arkonza]

Hey all,

I just need some help on finding a few items for a serious overclocking session, been digging for a while and I would like some further insight before making my final decisions. Suggestions, comments, questions welcome.

I have a home-made phase change cooler (got my 8400 wolfdale 3GHz to boot at 6GHz and run stable at 5) and a home-made water chiller that can hold 2 dual-core opteron 286's at sub-zero temps running at full load, indefinitely. I now want to apply both of these to a gaming rig but due to the low temps over so many locations on the board insulation has become a nightmare. I intend to use the phase on the CPU while the water chiller will be routed to my GTX 260 CPU waterblock, NB waterblock, and MOSFETS waterblocks if I use my asus striker II formula over my P5Q-Deluxe. The idea is to submerge the motherboard in mineral oil to negate the problem of condensation, the transfer will also cool the mineral oil, dropping the ambient temp of the board.

I'm looking for:

-Store to get Tygon Suitable for sub-zero application, in South Africa
I've used high standard garden hose on my last rig with a standard plexi pump for antifreeze at -23 degrees Celsius.. I'm just glad I took it apart before the inevitable happened.

-Mineral oil suitable for submerging my motherboard ***bit off topic of forum I suppose but doesn't hurt to ask
i.e.: no electrical conductivity, a high flashpoint and not too aggressive on component materials

-Suggestions on a stylish cooler box to house the motherboard in the mineral oil (The math I'll do myself, just can't find any I like)
I'm battling to find one that is an appropriate size, they're either way to small, way too big or just too ugly. The smaller it is the lower the 'ambient' temp should get, but the capacity will be fairly low... for overclocking the lower the temp the better but if the capacity is too low that affects how long the required temp can be sustained.

Cheers,
Arky

 

[ponder]

-Suggestions on a stylish cooler box to house the motherboard in the mineral oil ...

Custom build out of 8-10mm perspex?

Could have a lower compartment for motherboard with an upper compartment for the psu & drives.

 

[arkonza]

Custom build out of 8-10mm perspex?

Could have a lower compartment for motherboard with an upper compartment for the psu & drives.

Cheers mate, can't believe I didn't think of that as an option... Initially I wanted to use the water-chiller on the mineral oil in the container, instead of my waterblocks. In that case I would have needed an airtight, highly insulated container. That seems to have given me a slight case of tunnel vision, I'll probably go custom on this.

 

[Cadavre777]

Or you could use a fish tank of the appropriate dimensions and save yourself alot of work other than making a custom lid/housing for the unsightly odds and ends.

 

[arkonza]

Or you could use a fish tank of the appropriate dimensions and save yourself alot of work other than making a custom lid/housing for the unsightly odds and ends.

I Got a glass one at home, but I reckon not the best material choice for the temps I'm looking at. However, if a plexi tank is gonna cost as much as the materials I'll need to buy to make one myself, it'll save me some hassle. tnx, ill keep it in mind.

 

[Tacet]

I'm generally ok with computers, always build self, normally knows more than Incredible Connection. This thread, however, makes me feel like a total noob! I know the words, I know the context, I even know the ideas. But putting it all together!? Good luck!

 

[nakedpeanut]

Ya very interesting!! please keep us posted and provide pics! I like the ambitiousness of this OC!! Good luck indeed!

As for the stuff you need i have no idea.. soz

 

[arkonza]

I'm generally ok with computers, always build self, normally knows more than Incredible Connection. This thread, however, makes me feel like a total noob! I know the words, I know the context, I even know the ideas. But putting it all together!? Good luck!

lol, tnx... this is the easy part, making the phase-changers was the hard bit (the water-chiller is just a phase-change that cools a reservoir, while the other cools a solid block that bolts onto ur CPU).

 

[arkonza]

Ya very interesting!! please keep us posted and provide pics! I like the ambitiousness of this OC!! Good luck indeed!

As for the stuff you need i have no idea.. soz

I'll get pics of the phase units up 2mora, I'll do a work-log for this project so others can follow, and if there's an interest I'll try describe the process of making the phase-changers... including what happens to you when you breath the gases in ^^

 

[HavocXphere]

The idea is to submerge the motherboard in mineral oil to negate the problem of condensation, the transfer will also cool the mineral oil, dropping the ambient temp of the board.

Sounds like one hell of an overkill to fix condensation.

Some things you may or may not have thought about:

• You need high grade oil without impurities. Expensive. You need lots of it.
• The oil picks up impurities after a while & with that conductivity.
• You can't swop out any components after you pour the oil. Ever. No RMAing either
• The oil will probably pick up impurities from the thermal paste. So you'll probably need to run the blocks without paste.
• You'll probably need to swop the oil according to some schedule.
• The oil you swoped out needs to be disposed of. If done correctly this will probably cost you. Can't pour mineral oil down the drain.
• The connectors (mouse, DVI etc) will be near impossible to seal. Best bet is to rotate the mobo & have the connectors sticking out at the top.

I'd say dump the whole plan and go for a sealed box w/ air then regulate the block cooling to keep it above zero to fix the condensation.

Alternatively ignore all of the above & go for it. Then you'd provide some awesome entertainment for us either in the form of lulz or in the form of an impressive project.

 

[nakedpeanut]

Doing a little research on the subject i found this article

Once you have your mounting system created, you must begin insulating. The principle behind insulation for electronics is to form a perfect seal. If no moisture can enter your socket, there will be no condensation, and that means no short circuits. To prep your board you will first want to use some form of lacquer to seal the PCB and the surrounding electronic bits and pieces to protect them from any condensation that may form. I myself used Revlon clear nail polish because it dries quickly, is easy to spread, easy to remove, and best of all, doesn’t look too funny. I try to insulate a good 2-3 inches from the center of the socket just to make sure no potential condensation has a chance of setting in and causing any damage. Make sure you insulate both the front and the back, just because you don’t see the backside of the board doesn’t mean condensation won’t form.

<picture>

Once you have coated the area around the socket with a sealant, you will begin applying foam insulation. Foam insulation is effective because it keeps moist air from coming in contact with your very cold processor. The whole purpose of the insulation is to prevent your motherboard from sweating and shorting itself out. The main rule in insulating is to prevent any air contact with the cold pieces, so try to overlap everything and seal everything very well. My choice for sealing the motherboard was Armacells Insulating tape. This stuff is 2 inches wide and an eighth of an inch thick, and best of all, it came in a 30 foot roll. To start I worked on the back, cutting 6 inch strips and covering a 6″ by 6″ square on the back of the board, covering the backside of the socket. Then I cut 3 more strips and laid then across the previous strips, sealing up all the gaps. Then I placed another layer of tape, giving me a 3/8″ of insulation on the back of the board. Even with this much insulation, the foam would get a bit cold but no condensation would form. Now to work on the front.

It doesn't look as impressive an all oil filed case would i'd imagine but seems a little easier..

 

[arkonza]

Sounds like one hell of an overkill to fix condensation.

Some things you may or may not have thought about...

Ah yes, this is what I've been waiting for, summin to get me really thinking about my approach.

The transfer is that bad that the entire board frosts up, I tried Vaseline, with putty, with liquid electrical insulation, with a multitude of Armorflex layers, with some hectic fans directed at the rig and I still had problems (The smallest gap eventually results in the system failing to power-up due to water build-up... the one time I think I got it perfectly airtight... certain areas become over-insulated and couldn't hold the OC). I had a lot of down time while waiting for possible knee surgery so thats how I started this

As far as the oil goes, still busy researching it, but so far it sounds manageable. While on the environmental side when making the rigs I was disciplined enough to dispose of dis-used gases in a manner required by law in the UK (not that anyone would know, but I like to believe I got a good heart) so I'm on the ball with not being jack and dumping the oil down the drain outside. Good point on the thermal paste, been looking at a solution to avoid dramas if the mineral oil freezes around the blocks (I reckon the expansion could cause serious problems, even crack the board) my fix for this should prevent the thermal paste making contact with the oil.

RMA'ing?? voiding warranties is sorta my thing... back in the day, first thing I did when I got my HP iPAQ 5550 from the UK was flash it with linux ^.^ Still got the thing, awesome for kismet'ing it up while wardriving.

Controlling the temps is a no-go atm, maybe the chiller if I regulated the pump by temp, but the idea behind the temps is to keep the rig happy, so the CPU cooler has to run at max
-53 degrees idle,
-32 degrees max load at 5GHz on the wolfdale.

The time it would take for the CPU cooler to turn-around my rig woulda blue screened.

So I'm taking what you said into account... and still gonna go for it (but with a few well educated adjustments)

Much appreciated mate,

 

[arkonza]

Doing a little research on the subject i found this article

It doesn't look as impressive an all oil filed case would i'd imagine but seems a little easier..

Lol, getting back to my roots... that was one of my first points of call when I started learning, one of my mates on base got me started with refrigeration, woulda liked to have directed you to our work-log but his page has been down for a while. I used 'Artists Eraser' to insulate around the CPU, as the boards I have make it almost impossible to effectively implement Armorflex sheets around it without launching the board out the window once you snap, to be honest I prefer it.

Had it just been the single phase on the CPU this approach woulda taken care of it, but the NB being water-chilled in such close proximity to the CPU, as well as the water chilled MOSFETS turn the entire board into a Popsicle... and then to the bane of my existence... the transfer down the GFX card into the PCI slot then to the board.

Thanks for your enthusiasm, the interest in this has gotten me hell-bent on getting it done.

 

[arkonza]

Sounds like one hell of an overkill to fix condensation.

I left my stock heat-sinks in the UK and I wanna get my rig running again but I can't be bothered to pay for more heat-sinks, hence elaborate OC project re-awakened on my home soil ^^ ... I think I failed at my methodology some point before condensation becoming the problem.

 

[HavocXphere]

The smallest gap eventually results in the system failing to power-up due to water build-up... the one time I think I got it perfectly airtight...

No sealing it won't help with the condensation regardless of how sealed it is. Its just meant to force ambient temp down to near zero without the need for oil.

As far as the oil goes, still busy researching it, but so far it sounds manageable.

Props for confidence I guess. Keep us posted.

been looking at a solution to avoid dramas if the mineral oil freezes around the blocks

Won't freeze per se, but viscocity will shoot sky high.

Controlling the temps is a no-go atm, maybe the chiller if I regulated the pump by temp, but the idea behind the temps is to keep the rig happy, so the CPU cooler has to run at max

Logic there sounds flawed to me. The cooler shouldn't run at max. It needs to run just enough to keep the CPU near zero. Anything more than that is inefficient & counterproductive (condensation, brittle materials, energy inefficient). Sure, -50deg sounds cool, but its not an elegant solution.

The time it would take for the CPU cooler to turn-around my rig woulda blue screened.

Yeah, I can see how thats going to be difficult w/ phase change but I'm sure its possible & probably less schlepp than oil.

 

[Archer]

Go here, good starter guide, and no oil required.

 

[D34M0n7]

Arkonza wont be replying for until tomora (14th), hes busy working+studying... Penguin.

 

[Messugga]

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=163649

Scratch build mineral oil case. Lots of detail and loads of effort was put into this thing, and it's definitely worth the effort of taking an hour or so and properly working through the entire thread.

Oh, and it won a bit-tech mod of the month, which says something.