Switzerland 'rejects basic income', poll projections suggest

[TriGuN]

I would love to see some real data where something like this has been implemented somewhere. Everybody thinks that people would just sit on their bum and do nothing, but there would be lots of people that would take the opportunity to better themselves.

I wouldn't work for someone else ever again, that's for sure.
I'd do my own thing, and if that doesn't make me any money, that would be ok.. because I would be doing what I want to do, and I would still have food on the table and a roof over my head.
I'm pretty sure that's not just me.

 

[Knyro]

I wouldn't work for someone else ever again, that's for sure.
I'd do my own thing, and if that doesn't make me any money, that would be ok.. because I would be doing what I want to do, and I would still have food on the table and a roof over my head.
I'm pretty sure that's not just me.

Depends on the quality of life IMO. If I had the bare essentials for free, but were still poor to the point where I couldn't afford other stuff I want like gadgets, couldn't get around (transportation), have to live in a shyte neighborhood, couldn't afford to travel, couldn't go on dates with quality women etc. my life would still suck badly enough for me to seek better education and employment, despite the safety net. Add a good dose of personal shame for being on the dole and I'm off welfare ASAP.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Libertarian Charles Murray makes the case for a universal basic income in the US.

A Guaranteed Income for Every American: Replacing the welfare state with an annual grant is the best way to cope with a radically changing U.S. jobs market—and to revitalize America’s civic culture

 

[d0b33]

Around 20% in favour is actually not that surprising, it will keep growing as jobs become more scarce due to automation.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Around 20% in favour is actually not that surprising, it will keep growing as jobs become more scarce due to automation.

Depends on the type of economy a country has. Industries that are not local oriented are going to shut down. Services and high skilled design jobs will remain. Farming and mining will employ less people as time goes on

 

[d0b33]

Depends on the type of economy a country has. Industries that are not local oriented are going to shut down. Services and high skilled design jobs will remain. Farming and mining will employ less people as time goes on

Yes, exactly my point.

 

[noxibox]

Actually 2500 Swiss Francs is not much above the typical minimum unskilled pay in Switzerland.

When you are happy to give a significant percentage of your earnings over to someone less fortunate than you, then we can continue this conversation.

We already do, and I'm happy to do so.

if all things were equal, a person who works harder, longer, and smarter, and is willing to take more risks, will fair better than someone who doesn't.

Well all things are not equal so your argument is basically pure bullsh*t.

It depends on the people/culture/mindset. While there are countries where depending on handouts is the norm, there are also countries that breed industrious nature and unemployed people would rather get up early to look for work or do their own thing than accept anything that resembles a handout, whether due to pride or the way they were raised (the culture).

Can you give some examples of countries with no social support programmes?

Many people, regardless of their alleged industrious culture, will eventually give up looking for work or even doing their own thing if they get nowhere.

plus give money to the rest of the population as well, without raising taxes. Of course taxes will go up

In fact they will then not be going up.

 

[konfab]

Libertarian Charles Murray makes the case for a universal basic income in the US.

A Guaranteed Income for Every American: Replacing the welfare state with an annual grant is the best way to cope with a radically changing U.S. jobs market—and to revitalize America’s civic culture

The best part is you would push spending to an all new level. Which in turn would create more better paid jobs.

The only caveat with such a system is you need serious control on the population growth.

 

[FoXtroT]

I listen to a Freakanomics podcast about this the other day and they made some interesting points regarding some of the concerns many people from both sides have.

I would encourage anyone interested in the debate to try find it (I got it off iTunes).

 

[Vrotappel]

The best part is you would push spending to an all new level. Which in turn would create more better paid jobs.

The only caveat with such a system is you need serious control on the population growth.

and immigration.

 

[konfab]

and immigration.

Population growth includes immigration.

 

[The_Assimilator]

When you are happy to give a significant percentage of your earnings over to someone less fortunate than you, then we can continue this conversation.

You already do that anyway. It's called "income tax".

I never said anything about the poor not working hard- that was you reading into things, but generally, if all things were equal, a person who works harder, longer, and smarter, and is willing to take more risks, will fair better than someone who doesn't.

There's a world of difference between "faring better" and "levelling the playing field so that human beings don't have to spend their lives doing a dead-end job just to afford housing and food". Guess what, if you level the playing field, it gives people more incentive to take risks and be entrepreneurs.

 

[access]

I guess they don't have the want to give all the immigrants money for nothing.

 

[Mach III]

Now that is a country doing things right.

So well run they can afford to give money back. Think about it.. In South Africa; they are putting up our fuel prices, not that fuel is more expensive, but because they need to spread the tax where they can. Our interest payments have sky rocketed and we're fighting to have to not pay back even more on loans; instead of accountability, we have, "race card", aaand, "race card", aaaaand, "race card"... Amazing really. Bless the Swiss.

Did you know that in Switzerland homes have gardens where they grow veggies? https://www.google.com/search?q=switzerland+home+gardening&client=firefox-b-ab&tbm=isch&imgil=TPCk2NHngp66UM%253A%253Byc6By2LxTBFn5M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pinterest.com%25252Fpin%25252F178032991493516288%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=TPCk2NHngp66UM%253A%252Cyc6By2LxTBFn5M%252C_&usg=__zHQo6cPK5EtiF8097kMhb3Xcz0c%3D&biw=911&bih=369&ved=0ahUKEwiXi_i9xZXNAhXLCMAKHUMbBjoQyjcINw&ei=3otWV5ekJ8uRgAbDtpjQAw#imgrc=TPCk2NHngp66UM%3A
Compare that to a country where people will beg for a R2 to buy bread (or tik) prepared in a factory, opposed to teaching children how to farm in school. Or compared to the USA where in some states it is illegal to farm on your property - as well as illegal in some states to collect your own water. They want every body to work on the system. Switzerland doesn't work like that. People are self empowered.
Did you know that in Switzerland, you are allowed to grow marijuana for personal consumption? Before it was hip.

and ****ing hell, that is almost R40,000 per month. Imagine if they started using that money to invest in countries world wide? They could colonize the World with Swiss villages. Imagine 1000 people investing their free monthly income in SA; that would be 40 million rand a month.. Imagine the infrastructure that they could do. They're on a winning system for sure. Compare that to the USA's weapons production, trying to " Democratize" and "Free" the World.