Telkom answer local bandwidth issue with the finger

Great job on keeping at them Tommygun, keep it up and yeah, if you need community support just let us know!
 
Tommygun said:
On a more technical note for those who know. Would it be very hard to exclude (The majority of) local content from traffic accounting? Cant one simply exclude the relevant subnets or AS numbers kinda thing?
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In order to only count international traffic towards the cap would require some major re-engineering to the core fabric of the ADSL network. This results in it being quite a risky upgrade (if you get it wrong) from a service stability point of view.

Unfortunately we'll never know what Telkom's aptitude & resource avaliablity to perform the upgrade are, therefore we wont know if they are dragging their feet or genuinely making sure that when they implement it won't de-stabilse the network?
 
Regardless of how difficult or easy it is to do (and considering that they were able to do this in the past, I can't see how it can be too difficult), the fact remains that the rules say that local usage may not count towards user's cap. I find it shocking that they are allowed to continue running their service when they don't abide by the rules set by ICASA.

Usually discussions on this forum revolve around the fact that Telkom is disadvantaging us with their high pricing and inferior service when compared to other countries. I think it's great that people voice their opinions about this because I too think the prices are ridiculous. The problem with such arguments, though, is that there isn't a law which says that Telkom must lower prices and therefore it is difficult to force Telkom to lower prices. In the above case, though, the law is on our side. We just need to make sure that the law is enforced. I hope someone starts some form of petition about this. We must stand up against Telkom.
 
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Again, Telkoms excuse is invalid.

I spent days trying to get my licence renewed because of eNATIS, and yet, despite the difficulty, I am compelled to do so - and in this case I had no control.

Telkom can bloody well make it work if they want to. AND - AS LONG AS THEY DONT, evey single SAIX ADSL ACCOUNT should have a corresponding one that is local only - and with no cap. That they can do.
 
Is it just my noobishness or is this alot of Bull. Beginning of May telkom changed their soft cap to a hard cap, and their forum representatives stated that they now have almost real time data from SAIX that shows the amount of data used? Cant they use this data to determine the local and international bandwidth? or do they just want to go against the regulations and charge for local too?
 
Athlon64 said:
and considering that they were able to do this in the past, I can't see how it can be too difficult
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Nope, the previous system was very different ... both local & intl counted toward the cap, but after the cap was reached you had unlimited local.

So lets say you had a 3Gig cap and the 1st 3Gigs you downloaded was from local sites. In the old system you would have no intl left, in the new system you would still have the 3Gig of intl access to use.

Moederloos said:
I spent days trying to get my licence renewed because of eNATIS
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A glorious example of what happens when someone is pushed past their capabilities. We just dont know how easy/difficult it is for Telkom to implement the new capping system. If they're not up to the task and are pushed premeturely, we could land up with eADSL ... stable one day a week.
 
Further, this is underscored by the fact that Telkom did not object to the removal of the cap for local bandwidth use and further indicated that its network can distinguish between local and international usage
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Telkom attended the hearings and did not raise an objection to this issue and at the time did not state any major technical difficulties.

So our alternatives are:
1) This is difficult to implement and Telkom is criminally incompetent because they did not send someone with sufficient technical and systems knowledge to the ADSL hearings.
2) This is not difficult to implement and Telkom is deliberately defrauding the South African public and business by intentionally delaying the implementation of this regulation.
 
This is how I see it:

Telkom are not in compliance of the Local bandwidth regulations, they know it and so does ICASA - My guess is something clicked in somewhere and changes were made in private, which would let customers go over their limits, no hard capping... and of course no telling anyone else. I say this because imagine my surprise, and I am sure a lot of other people here were surprised when Mr Hayward is reported as saying that Telkom do not Hard Cap people, they let them go over a good bit and if things get too Wayward, they will give the customer a call (how nice)

So it would appear that everyone is watching their cap and not daring to go over for fear of being cut off, when in fact you might be able to squeeze an extra two gigs before being shown a yellow card

In a way Telkom have dug this hole all by themselves by justifying the need for a cap primary because of International traffic costs, which when I think of it is a bit of out of sorts because from what I understand their costs are pretty much fixed and the facility is way under utilised, one would think that there were trying to police the Internet. However the important part of this is that ICASA have very clearly stated that local usage does not count towards this limit, Telkom have stated that they do not have the ability to separate Local for International, therefore they cannot be deemed capable of enforcing a Cap

I would think the only way to get ICASA going on this would be in the form of complaints, either from user groups, like Computer Clubs, or Collectives, like MyADSL for example. Also not forgetting individuals. Other than complaining about the crux of the matter, that being that local usage is not being monitored. Then there is another form of complaint, this would be for anyone that has been capped, either hard or soft, as with your phone bill you have the right to know how much traffic you did, local and International, so that you can check the figures for your own records
 
Hi All, I just posted this to ICASA now so lets see how long it takes for them to respond. Many thanks to all for all the input, help and ideas esp Dragon logos and Redheadfan.

Dear ICASA, Mr Malebusha and Mr Tlhabi,
What happens now? With refrence to Dr Hortons reply, none of my concerns have been addressed and Telkom are content to continue stealing resourses illegaly from consumers due to their supposed inability to comply with ICASA regulations. It really is for Telkom to stop billing illegaly until such time they do have mechanisms in place to appropriately and accurately monitor traffic sources and destinations.

In direct relation to this issue should Telkom not be able to monitor local and international usage, they should not be able to apply a cap of any size or description until such time as the issue is resolved. This needs to be done with imediate effect. They are in breach and the regulator must regulate. The reason why this should be un-capped is that local users could use 30 gigs or more but cannot do to this due to the restriction.

In addition...

Although the regulations were released over 9 months ago in August 2006, the ICASA findings from which the regulations were constructed were released 25 JULY 2005 that is over 21 months ago!!!!!

Quote: (All From the ICASA Web site)
4.6.10 ICASA's Findings
The Authority is of the opinion the the count of local use towards the cap should be removed.

Quote:
Further, this is underscored by the fact that Telkom did not object to the removal of the cap for local bandwidth use and further indicated that its network can distinguish between local and international usage

This is not to mention the fact that Telkom were consulted on making the regulations.

To add emphasis that my voice on this matter is not a loine one Im sure I could muster up a few hundered signatures supporting my complaint Ref CA/WC8546 if you feel it would be useful.


I look forward to hearing your response.

Mr T.G.Cleghorn
 
Tommygun, while reading this quite interesting aspect (together with action Johny Two Shoes is doing) I was wondering why not start a class action law suit against Telkom instead of just a petition. Dominic and the other lawyers here will be knowledgable about the process for going about doing it - whether one first needs lay down a criminal complaint with the police's commercial crimes unit (which will just result in Telkom possibly being found guilty) or a civil case demanding reparation (Telkom repaying customers and also correcting their actions) or both. As you have said, they are in effect breaking the law and stealing from unsuspecting customers, so I guess its a matter of both.

As others have indicated, they had the know-how to distinguish between local and international in the past, so what is the difference now? What was the purpose of ICASA publishing the specific regulations if they did not have the confidence that Telkom, Verizon and other internet suppliers will be able to comply with them? Telkom cannot complain about not enough time, because they have had more than enough time. But I guess since ICASA is the regulator one needs to use all existing channels before deciding on court action, otherwise the courts will simply throw it out because of the fact that one has not followed procedure. Besides, court action is quite expensive.

There are plenty of disgruntled customers who are willing to support a petition, most of whom I am sure will be wiling to support a class action lawsuit - even if they dont get something out, just to force Telkom to change the way they operate. Lets be honest, Telkom dont have to listen to petitions except for the bad publicity it generates, but whenever have we heard Telkom actually doing something constructive to avoid bad publicity? However, we know from previous (and current) court cases against Telkom have taken a long time, if ever they get settled, and will cost a lot of legal fees. It is just about getting a few lawyers willing to do the project at risk, i.e. only taking a cut from compensation vis-a-vis their normal hourly charge.

I know you only posted the last reply to ICASA in the last week. However, if they dont do their job as regulator and enforce their own regulations, then one can also bring them into the lawsuit, i.e. they must then pay part of the cost for reparations to customers of Telkom as they were by their action (or in-action) complicit in the illegal act, IMO.

IMHO, Telkom will only listen to customer's complaints if it will seriously hurt their bottom line. And they dont really listen to complaints if it is just coming from one or a few people. Class action combines the issue of a petition in bringing the law into it. One could even explore the possibility of doing this through the US courts as Telkom is listed on the NYSE, though they mostly operate in SA, broken SA law and the complainants may all be SAns. I have heard of stranger things going to the courts in the US.
 
I dont believe that telkom dont have the ability to separate Local and International bandwidth. Other ISP's do it. If someone could maybe show poor telkom how to do this, then there would be no excuse and the problem would be resolved.
ill run for mayor next year...
 
i just got this in an email:
Stop the great bandwidth swindle: Join the Free Bandwidth Campaign

Stand up for your Internet rights with the Free Bandwidth Campaign. Demand your right to free local Internet. Act on 30 June 2007 to force Telkom to obey the laws of South Africa just like any other responsible corporate citizen.

Did you know that your monthly bandwidth allocation is legally NOT supposed to include local traffic? According to regulations promulgated in terms of the Electronic Communications Act of 2005, all local bandwidth must be provided free to ADSL users.

The local bandwidth regulation was gazetted as Notice 1112 of 2006, and clearly defines ‘Local Bandwidth Usage to mean data that can be transferred from South African based Internet Protocol addresses’. Most importantly, Notice 1112 clearly states that local bandwidth usage shall not be subject to any cap’. But ADSL users are all too well aware that when their monthly cap is reached, their internet connection is effectively switched off.

The bandwidth regulations go on to state that ‘Telkom, SNO [second national operator] and ISPs shall inform subscribers, at least on a weekly basis, of their bandwidth usage until the monthly cap has been reached’. If local bandwidth is being counted as part of your monthly cap, you are being cheated out of your legal right to access local internet.

Telkom claims its network cannot support the traffic of all ADSL users who are entitled to free local bandwidth. But the wildly profitable company has a local infrastructure paid for many times over by taxpayers already and made R6-billion in profit last year alone. If it doesn’t have the capacity, it has no excuse not to invest in it. If Telkom does not have the capacity or invest, how will it be ready to provide network capacity for the 2010 Soccer World Cup?

Something is very wrong – but Telkom is notoriously reluctant to divulge any details about its network capacity.

No longer are you helpless to do anything about this appalling situation. The Free Bandwidth Campaign www.fbc.org.za is giving you the chance to put Telkom to the test. By downloading the Free Bandwidth testing software (available soon), your computer will act for you at midday, 30 June 2007. It will connect to local sites and download as much local content as possible, in unison with the machines of thousands of concerned Netizens around the country.

It will put Telkom’s network to the test and prove whether or not Telkom can meet the needs of the people it is supposed to serve. It will throw open to the world the capacity and capability of Telkom’s network with results which will be collected and published.

After the test, the programme will uninstall itself automatically, leaving no footprint on your computer.

Why are we doing this?

Local bandwidth charges are working against the country’s priorities as outlined by the President. In February 2007, President Thabo Mbeki once again made cheaper telecommunications a priority for the nation.

Mbeki said government would take a variety of steps to improve competition, lower the cost of doing business and promote investment, “including developing high-speed national and international broadband capacity.”

It is a developmental stumbling block. Australia, with a population of 20.9 million, launched ADSL in 1997. Free local bandwidth has encouraged far greater adoption of the service; with no local charges, users were quick to set up internet servers on their home computers, for online gaming, file transfer, or self-hosted web sites. The result is that with the massive growth in usage, costs went from very high to very affordable in a short space of time. It has 3.1m DSL users. South Africa has a population of 47.4m. We only have 203,700 DSL users.

And, it has been proven in a study that American communities with access to broadband have performed better that those which have not had access. The study * notes, among other things that ‘Broadband access does matter to the economy, just as common sense would say it should. Broadband enhances economic activity, helping to promote job creation both in terms of the total number of jobs and the number of establishments in communities with broadband.’

In 2005, Telkom's CEO Papi Molotsane stated that the company’s target is 15% ADSL line penetration, or 702 000 ADSL lines operational. Achieving this target was subsequently adjusted to 2010. At the current rate of installation Telkom is set to have about 500 000 ADSL lines by 2010, 202 000 short of their own target.
The cost of local bandwidth also forces local Internet Service Providers to locate their servers internationally, since it is cheaper to do so. That means lost jobs, opportunities and economic activity.

Stop Telkom milking us, the Internet user, for profit. It’s time to Free Bandwidth and ‘cut the cap’.
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anyone else?
 
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